Council not happy with Motorhomes in Pub Car Parks

trevskoda said:
Funney how they dont bully the travelers over here and move them on, they own 5/6 houses round here and swap vans around every now and again to beat the rules.
Surley folk on a pub site would be hard to prove and time wasted with snoops out at night taking pictures for a court rulling.
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The pub owner could offer rooms. A car owner would park up overnight and sleep in the pub, so a MH owner could be doing the same.
The councils first move is to intimidate, frighten and bully. In our case they state laws that don't exist or are out dated, they'll do anything to make you comply including deliberately lying, I'm not a huge fan of planning departments
 
colinm said:
The 60 day rule seems a 'double edged sword', under the old 28 day rule you didn't need to inform the council of any specific dates, now you need to inform the council which dates you want to run a campsite.
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I suspect this is how some of these pop up sites operate over the summer holidays. Seen a few over our long UK tours last summer and the one before. Generally farmers fields open for July and August only with a few portable showers and portaloos. All taken down by the beginning of September. When we stayed near Salcombe last couple of summers for a several weeks there was one just down the road. It was packed and £25 a night so quite lucrative I would think.
 
Sometimes in life you have to pinch yourself to make sure that you are still here, and that what you are reading is true. So here we have pubs closing in our country daily, and those that are left many of whom are struggling to survive. We have a situation were we offer these pubs business and in return all they do is allow us to stay in their carpark at no expense or inconvenience to them, it’s what’s known as a win win. Then comes along some nutter who takes umbrage at this and complains about it to his local council, and the council are then duty bound to apply idiotic rules put in place by bureaucrats who would be totally unable to run a pub in the first place. So we are asked to support local economies (we are the only ones expected to do so) that box is ticked. We are asked to get permission of the land owner to park, that box is ticked, but sadly a third box can’t be ticked due to rules that should have been ditched decades ago. :mad:
 
Consider:

1. I drive to the pub in my car. Have a few too many and take a taxi home. Car is left in private pub car park overnight. Is this a problem?
2. Same scenario as (1) but I fall asleep in my car and zizz till dawn. Is this a problem?
3. Now change the car for a motorhome and I didn't drink too much. Apparently this is now a problem.

Is the real issue here that we just don't have a legal definition of the difference between parking and camping?
 
Does anyone live in York, and would they like to raise a FOI request to find out who the complainant is? A spate of such complaints occurred in Lincolnshire/Leicestershire area, and seemingly one of the smaller camping certificate issuing outfits suggested by York seemed to be kindly offering to certify some of the pubs who had been complained about. I understand it is headed up by a lawyer, and if it is the same person I had a telephone chat with a few years ago he emphatically had a bee in his bonnet about challenging places such as pubs that he regarded as offering illegal camping.
Should this again be the case it would be useful to have it in the public domain that these vexatious challenges are coming from a commercially interested source and not from genuinely concerned locals.
 
number14 said:
Consider:

1. I drive to the pub in my car. Have a few too many and take a taxi home. Car is left in private pub car park overnight. Is this a problem?
2. Same scenario as (1) but I fall asleep in my car and zizz till dawn. Is this a problem?
3. Now change the car for a motorhome and I didn't drink too much. Apparently this is now a problem.

Is the real issue here that we just don't have a legal definition of the difference between parking and camping?
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I suspect the same rules could apply to sleeping in your car but nobody would notice that. Cars get left in pub car parks all the time. The difference here is some busy body moron just doesnt like motorhomes being parked overnight there. Could be be all sorts of reasons from just your typical NIMBY or envious attitude to someone who maybe had a dodgy meal there. All it takes is one person to decide they want to complain and the UK is full of people only too willing to stick their oar in.
 
barge1914 said:
Does anyone live in York, and would they like to raise a FOI request to find out who the complainant is? A spate of such complaints occurred in Lincolnshire/Leicestershire area, and seemingly one of the smaller camping certificate issuing outfits suggested by York seemed to be kindly offering to certify some of the pubs who had been complained about. I understand it is headed up by a lawyer, and if it is the same person I had a telephone chat with a few years ago he emphatically had a bee in his bonnet about challenging places such as pubs that he regarded as offering illegal camping.
Should this again be the case it would be useful to have it in the public domain that these vexatious challenges are coming from a commercially interested source and not from genuinely concerned locals.
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Sadly I don't think that would work as they would redact the name and address for data protection ☹️
 
barryd said:
I suspect the same rules could apply to sleeping in your car but nobody would notice that. Cars get left in pub car parks all the time. The difference here is some busy body moron just doesnt like motorhomes being parked overnight there. Could be be all sorts of reasons from just your typical NIMBY or envious attitude to someone who maybe had a dodgy meal there. All it takes is one person to decide they want to complain and the UK is full of people only too willing to stick their oar in.
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You might notice that it is the law that has changed, not the Council. It might surprise you but it is one of the duties of all our Councils to implement the laws passed by our government in Westminster. You may prefer anarchy...
 
peterFuller said:
New Planning law in England and Wales since July 2023 allows temporary use of land for motor homes and camper vans (not towed caravans) for up to 60 days in a year without planning permission, except in a Conservation area, but the land owner must notify the Planning Authority IN ADVANCE of the dates when it is to be so used each year. There must be no permanent fixtures or fittings on the site (probably that excludes EHU's) but temporary facilities (e.g. Portaloos) are allowed provided they are removed when the site is not in use. Toilet and waste disposal facilities must be available.
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I've read this post a dozen times now and I am still trying to get my head around how it applies to a motorhome parking overnight in a pub car park where there are no facilities (toilets, EHU), there is no camping behaviour (eg chairs and tables, awnings) and no money has exchanged hands for said parking. The only difference between a car and a motorhome being in a car park overnight is that the motorhome is occupied with, probably, people sleeping.
So are we now implying that sleeping is potentially illegal? What have we come to in this country?

My view is that this law is meant to apply to farmers and the like who want to open a field for campers over the summer months. If its scope spills over to pub car parks then it's a definite case of unintended consequences.
 
peterFuller said:
You might notice that it is the law that has changed, not the Council. It might surprise you but it is one of the duties of all our Councils to implement the laws passed by our government in Westminster. You may prefer anarchy...
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So we should never question laws that are clearly bonkers then, just put up and shut up like good little boys and girls. Why would any normal person give a hoot what pub owners do with their car park through the night, unless of course the good little boy or girl who took this matter up has an axe to grind, or through some kind of self interest. I take it you have never broken the law, hence the high morale ground taken ;)
 
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peterFuller said:
You might notice that it is the law that has changed, not the Council. It might surprise you but it is one of the duties of all our Councils to implement the laws passed by our government in Westminster. You may prefer anarchy...
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Have you looked up the definition of Anarchy? It's probably not as you understand it and Anarchy inn many ways is actually pretty reasonable, so Yes, there's a lot going for Anarchy.
When I had my run in with the council they were pretty quick to spout laws that didn't exist and had been superseded/scrapped. If you want a discussion of 'What the council is responsible for' then I've got a list as long as my arm of stuff they are supposed to do but aren't, ALL of them way WAY more important than stopping campervans on pub car parks.
 
Fisherman said:
So we should never question laws that are clearly bonkers then, just put up and shut up like good little boys and girls. Why would any normal person give a hoot what pub owners do with their car park through the night, unless of course the good little boy or girl who took this matter up has an axe to grind, or through some kind of self interest. I take it you have never broken the law, hence the high morale ground taken ;)
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I would say it is fine to question laws, and hopefully they might change and have a more 'common sense' approach (I'm not holding my breath), meanwhile we have laws which various agencies are duty bound to uphold, I know for a fact (having witnessed it) that our local council will often ignore breaches in planning, but if someone objects they will investigate, and I would expect nothing less from them.
Maybe it is now time someone started a campaign for pubs to be allowed an exemption to allow a small amount of overnighting, or maybe they should apply to CAMpRA, or maybe the FLVA should set something up.
I do sympathise with the pub if it's the one Barry highlighted, as it looks to be in the middle of nowhere and doing nobody any harm, their website doesn't advertise 'camping', so either a campsite owner has objected to them, or they have been caught up in a wider objection, as I see SfS list them, do SfS list certain places without their knowledge, or would they have 'advertised' there?
 
colinm said:
I would say it is fine to question laws, and hopefully they might change and have a more 'common sense' approach (I'm not holding my breath), meanwhile we have laws which various agencies are duty bound to uphold, I know for a fact (having witnessed it) that our local council will often ignore breaches in planning, but if someone objects they will investigate, and I would expect nothing less from them.
Maybe it is now time someone started a campaign for pubs to be allowed an exemption to allow a small amount of overnighting, or maybe they should apply to CAMpRA, or maybe the FLVA should set something up.
I do sympathise with the pub if it's the one Barry highlighted, as it looks to be in the middle of nowhere and doing nobody any harm, their website doesn't advertise 'camping', so either a campsite owner has objected to them, or they have been caught up in a wider objection, as I see SfS list them, do SfS list certain places without their knowledge, or would they have 'advertised' there?
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My anger is with the stupid planning regs, and the person who reported the pubs, not the council who as you say have to follow the stupid planning regs.
 
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