Christmas, arewe being conned?

[Northerner]

I have recently bought two Shower trays and two Shower surrounds from Homebase here in Southampton and had to wait a Month for them to be delivered , I got them Friday last, so how does that work in these so called hard times?

Well, that's your most bizarre argument yet for trying to prove your theory that there's no recession,that it's all a big confidence trick and that retailers will soon be posting huge profits. You ought to try convincing my daughter's boy friend who was recently made redundant when HMV closed its large store just outside Bolton. And this morning that same retailer announced that it faces an uncertain future as its latest six-month accounting period shows a loss of £47 million after like-for-like sales fell by nearly 12%.

But anyway, I'll try to explain to you why you had to wait four weeks for your bathrooms parts. Retailers cannot stock every single thing that has ever been made. The costs would be enormous and they'd have to double up on storage space. So for certain special orders, they get them from the manufacturer. Now if you are lucky, the manufacturer will actually have them in stock, but if you're not, they won't. Many parts and products are made in batches and then the production line is changed to make a different product. They try to gauge demand but it's not an exact science.

If anything, your wait is proof that business is bad because, when it is, everyone tries to reduce investment in stock and works on a 'just in time' system. Car makers, who would have once stocked million of pounds worth of parts, now try to plan that the items required as they build vehicles, come in a day or so before they are needed, thus freeing capital that would otherwise be tied up in huge stock holdings.

I have to say that I find your attitude very puzzling. You appear to live in a world where everyone in business must automatically be making a fortune. I would respectfully suggest that you begin reading a decent newspaper, or finding the on-line versions. You will very quickly learn that Britain, as far as retailing is concerned, is going through its worst recession for over thirty years. Surely you must have read about the towns where 30% of the shops are empty and how can you have missed all the bankruptcies that have occurred in the last couple of years?

As I retailer myself I really wish that I lived on Planet Vindiboy, but unfortunately I'm in the real world and my very well-run and well-established business is over 20% down on the same period last year and in Spring we shall post our first ever loss.

 

[Rubbertramp]

Well, that's your most bizarre argument yet for trying to prove your theory that there's no recession,that it's all a big confidence trick and that retailers will soon be posting huge profits. .

Presumtuous?

But anyway, I'll try to explain to you why you had to wait four weeks for your bathrooms parts. Retailers cannot stock every single thing that has ever been made. The costs would be enormous and they'd have to double up on storage space. So for certain special orders, they get them from the manufacturer..

Patronising?

I have to say that I find your attitude very puzzling. You appear to live in a world where everyone in business must automatically be making a fortune. I would respectfully suggest that you begin reading a decent newspaper, or finding the on-line versions. You will very quickly learn that Britain, as far as retailing is concerned, is going through its worst recession for over thirty years. Surely you must have read about the towns where 30% of the shops are empty and how can you have missed all the bankruptcies that have occurred in the last couple of years?

As I retailer myself I really wish that I lived on Planet Vindiboy, but unfortunately I'm in the real world and my very well-run and well-established business is over 20% down on the same period last year and in Spring we shall post our first ever loss.

Condescending?

Has anyone ever suggested you pursue a career in politics?

 

[Bigpeetee]

Has anyone ever suggested you pursue a career in politics?

Probably too honest for that

 

[Northerner]

Has anyone ever suggested you pursue a career in politics?

Not yet. I know that I can be acerbic at times but, by way of apology, I promise faithfully not to post any links to disgusting and obscene websites.

 

[Northerner]

Probably too honest for that

And that's what is getting me quite annoyed with vindiboy. I and others have told him, and furnished proof, that U.K. retailers really are in the midst of the biggest recession for over thirty years. I've given him my own example and yet he continues with his view that it's all some kind of a confidence trick to get people to spend and, worst of all, he seems to be calling me a liar. And on what does he base this theory? He went into some shops and they were busy. I suspect that the fact it was two weeks before Christmas might have had something to do with that! So on this analysis of British retailing he announces that he has no doubt that PROFITS (his capitals) will be announced after Christmas!

Having been assured by me and others that things really are bad, he continues to try to prop up his theory by telling us that a four-week wait for some bathroom parts is somehow proof that the downturn in business is all in our minds.

I am now of the opinion that he is simply anti-business and is one of those people who only notices the successful ones with large salaries and big cars, and conveniently ignores all those who, often from no fault of their own, do not succeed and may lose everything. Profit, sorry PROFIT, appears to be a dirty word for him and he seems unable to work out that it's PROFIT that pays for the things that he takes for granted, such as health and education.

This financial year I shall make my first loss and, in January, I shall have to sack three or four people. My partner, who is younger than me and still has a mortgage will take a drop in salary. I shall stop taking a salary altogether as I can manage without one. This means that we are only going to sack the three or four staff, other wise it would be six or seven.

I have given other examples and there will be more. Unless someone has been living in a cave or never reads a newspaper, they must know that there have never been as many empty shops on our high streets. Thousands of jobs have been lost and the knock-on effect of empty shops and closing businesses affects the pension funds that invest in property, the companies that sell shop fittings, air conditioning, signs etc. etc.

But never mind, the shops in Southampton last week were very busy, so everything is rosy and I've nothing to worry about.

 

[Bigpeetee]

I've just been through what you seem to be going through now AND IT HURTS LIKE HELL.

Everyone I know has cut back, several very good friends are still open for business but only just and also because where else do they get an income??

Like me their in their late 50's early 60's, so even if there were jobs who would employ them??

I had a successful building manufacturing company, but the downturn in the construction industry wiped out by business in a very short period of time, plus other people going bust owing me a lot of money.

The big guys make less profit, if they're able to make one at all, therefore there's less money to go round and so it filters down. WHY do people think so many pubs have closed down? Because there's not enough money to be spent!

So I know for real that retail is hurting badly, as a knock on effect of other companies either staying still or most likely getting less profit.

I'd wager that if those who go on about profit, were given the opportunity to buy something that they could sell on at an increased price, everyone of them would do it, calling it "Making a bit of money" actually it's "profit"

There are so many people either in the black economy or by doing jobs on the side whilst taking benefits, that those who are trying to go about their business legally are being forced out by others greed.

 

[vindiboy]

Well, that's your most bizarre argument yet for trying to prove your theory that there's no recession,that it's all a big confidence trick and that retailers will soon be posting huge profits. You ought to try convincing my daughter's boy friend who was recently made redundant when HMV closed its large store just outside Bolton. And this morning that same retailer announced that it faces an uncertain future as its latest six-month accounting period shows a loss of £47 million after like-for-like sales fell by nearly 12%.

But anyway, I'll try to explain to you why you had to wait four weeks for your bathrooms parts. Retailers cannot stock every single thing that has ever been made. The costs would be enormous and they'd have to double up on storage space. So for certain special orders, they get them from the manufacturer. Now if you are lucky, the manufacturer will actually have them in stock, but if you're not, they won't. Many parts and products are made in batches and then the production line is changed to make a different product. They try to gauge demand but it's not an exact science.

If anything, your wait is proof that business is bad because, when it is, everyone tries to reduce investment in stock and works on a 'just in time' system. Car makers, who would have once stocked million of pounds worth of parts, now try to plan that the items required as they build vehicles, come in a day or so before they are needed, thus freeing capital that would otherwise be tied up in huge stock holdings.

I have to say that I find your attitude very puzzling. You appear to live in a world where everyone in business must automatically be making a fortune. I would respectfully suggest that you begin reading a decent newspaper, or finding the on-line versions. You will very quickly learn that Britain, as far as retailing is concerned, is going through its worst recession for over thirty years. Surely you must have read about the towns where 30% of the shops are empty and how can you have missed all the bankruptcies that have occurred in the last couple of years?

As I retailer myself I really wish that I lived on Planet Vindiboy, but unfortunately I'm in the real world and my very well-run and well-established business is over 20% down on the same period last year and in Spring we shall post our first ever loss.

Well thanks for your advice, I'll pass on the News papers as I never read them, if I had bought my showers from B n Q I could have had them straight away, unfortunately they don't sell the ones we chose, of course there is nothing wrong with making profit, but retailers seem to think that as they made X last year they have to make X+y this year, as for the just in time theory , I was involved in the Motor Industry for thirty years and the Accountants decided that the just in time system would save money, unfortunately it became a just too late system due to the diversity of components and logistic problems which in effect cost the Company Millions in lost production and work off lines to correct shortage of parts and vehicles built with parts missing just to keep the lines running, I see some bankruptcies as a way out of problems for some businesses who declare bankruptcy and almost immediately open up as a new set up , same staff, name and premisses , cynical? me, you bet.

 

[Northerner]

Well thanks for your advice, I'll pass on the News papers as I never read them, if I had bought my showers from B n Q I could have had them straight away, unfortunately they don't sell the ones we chose, of course there is nothing wrong with making profit, but retailers seem to think that as they made X last year they have to make X+y this year, as for the just in time theory , I was involved in the Motor Industry for thirty years and the Accountants decided that the just in time system would save money, unfortunately it became a just too late system due to the diversity of components and logistic problems which in effect cost the Company Millions in lost production and work off lines to correct shortage of parts and vehicles built with parts missing just to keep the lines running, I see some bankruptcies as a way out of problems for some businesses who declare bankruptcy and almost immediately open up as a new set up , same staff, name and premisses , cynical? me, you bet.

"Retailers seem to think that if they made X last year they have to make X+ this year". Yes, of course they do and what's wrong with that? Every year their costs go. Business rates are about to go up again, postal charges and fuel costs are up dramatically and we like to give our staff a pay rise, so we'd all like to make a bit more each year. Once again you show how you really do think that making a profit is wrong!

But the difference between retailers and the public sector for instance is that we may want our profits to increase but we have no guarantee that they will and we have to accept much lower profits if the economy goes down hill.

As for bankruptcies as a way of clearing debts so as to start again, yes it happens and for retailers it's mainly a way of getting out of long leases and guess what, members of the public do it all the time! However, once more you show your bias against business. If all these firms that have gone bust have just risen again with a different name, where have they opened their shops? It's certainly not in the UK as, once again, if you did read newspapers, you'd know that the number of empty shops in most British towns, has never been so high, with some places having up to a third of their shops without tenants.

But what this all boils down to in the end is that you went into a town, just a couple of weeks before Christmas, saw that the shops were busy, and decided from that that all is well in the retail trade and that the talk of gloom and doom is all a confidence trick. If this is your normal reasoning and logic you'll forgive me if I no longer have much faith in your future arguments.

When I have to make some staff redundant in January I hope that they don't find out that it's all a big confidence trick and that I'm really making more money that ever, after all, December was a very busy month. It's just a pity that it was 20% down on the previous year.

 

[Firefox]

We are at a very bad economic time espec in retail and construction, compared the growth and stability we have enjoyed from 1992 to 2008. I honestly don't think this point can be argued. Maybe it is easy to get the wrong impression if you are working in a certain place and your immediate bubble is OK, but there is real hardship out there and it is going to get worse.

 

[Rubbertramp]

Not yet. I know that I can be acerbic at times but, by way of apology, I promise faithfully not to post any links to disgusting and obscene websites.

Oh yes, that little joke, which was posted without consideration to the humourless and prudish among us, and deleted. Bopper's post, to which mine (including link) was a reply, was also deleted therefore removing the context in which the joke was meant so you have probably not understood the vein of that part of the thread. It has made me look like some sort of pervert I'm afraid.......I've never been accused of being a sexual deviant before but I must admit that I do find the prospect quite exciting
Anyway, I hear the far off calls of "off topic" and the moderator's heavy footsteps so I'll leave you to carry on with your discussion....but not before wishing you and yours a very happy and prosperous new year!

 

[Deleted member 13543]

Thank goodness the Caped Crusader is back to save us all from ignorance and enlighten the unenlightened!!

Meanwhile, can we all just rejoice that the Winter Solstice is here, and whatever is happening in the business world, at least the days will now start getting longer!!

Happy Solstice, everyone!! :cheers:

KP x x x

 

[Firefox]

I always knew there was somethign about the name Rubbertramp :tongue: .....

 

[vindiboy]

Well Northerner and I will have to agree to disagree, he does get up tight doesn't he.I am kind of glad my head is buried in the sand, keep it down till the storm passes methinks.

 

[duncananderson]

yes indeed these are hard times that we live in.
however we must try to keep optimistic and keep fighting on.
its horrible when you have to let an employee go (heartbreaking)
we only have a tiny business but until last year we managed to employ
one fulltimer and a couple of part time staff.
last winter we were really skint and had to let the staff go.
we have worked a year with no help, its hard, we have so many jobs to do every day.
however although turnover is slightly down, profit is up (i wont put it in capitals cos its such a small amount ha ha)
TURNOVER IS VANITY, PROFIT IS SANITY who said that?
i am hopefull for the new year,
i wont wish you all a prosperous new year cos we all know it wont be!!!!!
i just hope you can all pay your bills, keep your heads above water, not have your motorhomes reposessed eek eek