Christmas, arewe being conned?

vindiboy

vindiboy

Full Member
Posts
3,808
Likes
4,268
The TV is full of doom saying the shops are doing badly and prices are greatly reduced, but if you watch the sale adverts and take note of the before sale price you will notice that the dates that the goods / items were on offer at the previous price is usually only for about 20 days and the asking price was ridiculous in that period so the NOW price looks good so are they genuine reductions or just a Sprat to catch the Mackerel?
I had the dubious pleasure of going Christmas shopping in Southampton today and the Town was heaving the queues to pay in all the shops were long and people were spending lots of money, so are we being conned ? I bet that after Christmas shops will be declaring large profits, not as large as they would like of course but PROFITS non the less.
 
Its the same every year, I also expect next Saturday to see people panic buying as the shops will be closed for one day :rolleyes2:
 
As you say same every year.

Its only a con if you get caught up in it, who says we need all these items.

Just get a little more organised, do a little shopping earlier than normal, best tip of all, put a limit on your budget, it really focus's your thoughts.
 
vindiboy said:
The TV is full of doom saying the shops are doing badly and prices are greatly reduced, but if you watch the sale adverts and take note of the before sale price you will notice that the dates that the goods / items were on offer at the previous price is usually only for about 20 days and the asking price was ridiculous in that period so the NOW price looks good so are they genuine reductions or just a Sprat to catch the Mackerel?
I had the dubious pleasure of going Christmas shopping in Southampton today and the Town was heaving the queues to pay in all the shops were long and people were spending lots of money, so are we being conned ? I bet that after Christmas shops will be declaring large profits, not as large as they would like of course but PROFITS non the less.
Click to expand...

You'd lose your bet I'm afraid. I don't know if you ever read the financial pages, but, for retailers, things haven't been as bad for thirty years as they are at present. Barrats, the shoe retailer with 300 shops, has just gone into administration. Carpetright, seen as a bellwether of UK retailing, has just declared a loss for the last six months of trading, as opposed to a profit of almost £10 million for the same period last year. Retail analysts are expecting a large number of liquidations early in the New Year. Retailers usually go into administration just after one of the four 'Quarter days', when they have to pay three months' rent in advance. And you must have read or heard about the dozens of other very large firms that have folded in the last couple of years?

I am a retailer and my business is extremely sound, with a very strong balance sheet, no borrowings and cash in the bank. I have survived at least four recessions over the last thirty years and, because I have always been conservative and not overstretched myself and never milked the business, we have survived, whilst our competitors have folded. I will make good profits in December as it's our best month, but in January and February and possibly March, I am predicting a loss. For the first time ever, in over thirty years of being in business, my company will lose money for the financial year. I don't have a big business, about £8 million turnover and just 45 staff, but I have several branches and the bigger you are the more you make or the more you lose. If business is terrible and you have one shop, you have one shop losing money, but I have ten outlets and when ten lose money it gets serious! Fortunately, some are better than others and some will make a profit and some will not, but overall, we expect a loss for the year.

If this severe recession continues and, in a year or or three, I have to close my business, it actually won't affect me too much. I am financially secure, with investments, property and a large private pension that matured recently at 60, but I have a junior partner, and over forty other staff and I want them to have jobs and a future. I'm not looking for sympathy personally, as I made my choices, took a second mortgage and started my own business and it's paid dividends over the years, and of course I've had what I consider the biggest advantage in life, of being my own boss, totally responsible for my own future and never had to worry about a boss, or being made redundant.

So yes, many businesses will make a profit in December, but if they can't make a profit in the best month of the year, then they really are in trouble! But there won't be many businesses that will increase profits this financial year, most will see them greatly reduced and many will make a loss. So don't let the queues fool you! It's Christmas and if there aren't queues at Christmas then we're really in the mire!
 
Last edited:
well they need to make hay whilst the sun shines, from Christmas to Easter are the "kipper" months, where in days gone by traders could only afford kippers to eat because of the lack of income, hell these days kippers are expencive, hee hee
 
conned at xmas realy ..... no this is the uk we are conned by everybody so whats new
 
There's several factors at work here.

Yes it is extremely bad for retailers at the moment and many are not making profits, but the pricing con games go on probably even more so now as retailers are desperate for sales.

Another factor is the huge volumes now going through the internet. Things I used to buy at say Halfords, Tesco, or Woolworth I now get from Amazon or similar. This explains the hoardes of DHL and USPC vans thronging around the town all day.

As a society in general I think we have been guilty of buying too much and wasting too much especially over the last 30 years. One only needs to look at the amount of food wastage there is and then go to Tescos to see almost every good is on a 2 for 1, 3 for 2 multibuy offer. People are being encouraged to buy too much through attractive volume offers. I'm also astonished to see the wastage in electronic goods and toys with perfectly serviceable items being thrown in the trash after 6 months or a year in favour of something more shiny.

The problem is that our consumer economy relies on this wastage for growth and just to maintain existing production. We are compelled to chuck stuff out so that people can have jobs making, distributing, and selling new items.
 
A few observations:
1. During a recession not everybody suffers. For example, travel agents and restaurants might be having a hard time of it as people cut back but Morrisons (where my sister works) are going through a boom at the moment because more people are planning to stay at home/eat at home this Christmas.
2. I ignore all the 3 for 2/half-price/bonus coupon nonsense that the big supermarkets engage in because the bottom line is it is always cheaper to shop at Lidl (bit disloyal to my sister, I know, but even with her staff discount they cannot match Lidl prices).
3. It never ceases to amaze me how far in advance people "plan" for an extra day or two off work. I am convinced that the majority of extra stuff that people buy at Christmas and other bank holidays just gets thrown in the bin - so in that sense the biggest con is committed by consumers on themselves.
 
mandrake said:
conned at xmas realy ..... no this is the uk we are conned by everybody so whats new
Click to expand...

By everybody, really? So no companies in the UK are honest or fair? And why just the UK? Where is this mythical Utopia where things are any different? Perhaps Morocco, or Pakistan or a bit nearer home, Italy. I mean, everyone knows that there is no corruption in Italy don't they?

Despite your cynicism this terrible system has managed to give you a better standard of living, better health and a longer life then any of the countries that tried to abolish the free enterprise system, before failing miserably! Which is why the old Communist Bloc had no innovative industry whatsoever and why the computer you are using, the mobile phone that you find invaluable and the lovely motorhome that you drive, are all the result of competition in the countries with free enterprise. And, in my experience, the biggest thieves and conmen are more often than not amongst the general public, some of whom will lie through their teeth to save a few bob!
 
Last edited:
Firefox said:
The problem is that our consumer economy relies on this wastage for growth and just to maintain existing production. We are compelled to chuck stuff out so that people can have jobs making, distributing, and selling new items.
Click to expand...

Who's compelling you? My computer is five years old and all I've done is upgraded the RAM and one or two other things. I have a new smartphone, because I wanted one, not because anyone compelled me but my wife's mobile phone is very ancient and she's not interested in upgrading as she's comfortable with it.

It's true that manufacturers continually bring out better products, that's the nature of capitalism and free enterprise. If they don't improve, their competitors surely will and they'll go out of business. But are you unhappy with the latest and much better products? I certainly wouldn't want to be driving the car I drove thirty years ago and I love my motorhome and my smartphone and my super TV with its digital recorder etc. etc. etc. but no one compelled me to buy any of these things.

And of course it's this production that creates jobs and wealth, wealth which then provides the money for hospitals and schools and pensions. Don't knock it, it's what makes us all wealthier and healthier!
 
Having returned to the UK after an extended abscence, and aware we are amongst a recession I find some of the comments interesting.

Today I have seen lots of advertising for high value playstations, i pod type things etc, the cynic in me suggesting the manufacturers not retailers are appealing to the child market who are possibly the most fickle of them all ,,,,,naturally they are not considering at all in their campaigns the pressure exerted by the afore target group badgering parents.

The scary thing being the amount of adults that will succomb and land themselves in trouble due to this type of marketing

In respect of the retailers, I pretty much would agree with Northerner, take his example 8 million tournover is exactly that and not indicative in any way in respect of profit.

Many businesses take risk with the hope of reward, a return on sales / profit isnt a dirty word,

I have worked for businesses. who frankly expanded to quick, in due course lost their core values and ultimately ended up in administration<

The best was a small family business in Doncater.......35 employees with a customer service ethic and loyalty I havent witnessed since. Sadly one of the bigger players pledged the earth to a manufacturer and our franchise was terminated and when the second franchise took the same attiude the owner sold up,

Interestingly both the bigger players are no longer in business.

Thats life

Channa
 
I like Northerner don't buy new goods unless it's absolutely necessary. I upgrade or mend and make do.

But the compelling reasons for many are out there. High pressure advertising, media hype (sometimes hand in hand with manufactures eg MMM magazine), or especially for younger people peer pressure and fashion (which is brought on by media hype and advertising).

I don't knock the consumer economy but I do knock outright wastage. And also I question people spending beyond their means. That has brought on bad debt and bankruptcy. Ultimately selling and reselling of toxic debt lead to the recent credit crisis which is one of the worst things that can happen to any economy/
 
I am the worlds worst consumer, I don,t impulse buy and can stand back and watch others throwing money away, witness my ten year old brick of a phone, that's not to say we go short of anything, I was able to retire at 55, 12 years ago, thanks to careful handling of finances etc. Northerner says that a company made 10 million profit last year and now have gone broke so what happened to the 10 million, what about the old rainy day theory ? my feeling is that a Company on paper can make X Millions in a period and if they don't for whatever reason then they bemoan losses, still making a profit, so as I said earlier I still expect profits to be announced later.
 
vindiboy said:
I am the worlds worst consumer, I don,t impulse buy and can stand back and watch others throwing money away, witness my ten year old brick of a phone, that's not to say we go short of anything, I was able to retire at 55, 12 years ago, thanks to careful handling of finances etc. Northerner says that a company made 10 million profit last year and now have gone broke so what happened to the 10 million, what about the old rainy day theory ? my feeling is that a Company on paper can make X Millions in a period and if they don't for whatever reason then they bemoan losses, still making a profit, so as I said earlier I still expect profits to be announced later.
Click to expand...

If you'd read my post properly you'd have noticed that I did not claim that Carpetright had gone bust! What I did say was that it made a profit of ten million in the six month period a year ago, but in the latest corresponding six month period it has made a loss. It hasn't gone bust and is still trading. You ask what has happened to that ten million. Some will have gone in dividends to shareholders and some will have been kept in reserve for, as you call it, a rainy day. Ten million pounds sounds like a lot of money, but this is company with a turnover of over £400 million pounds per annum.

Perhaps you can tell us all which companies will make a profit then as you seem to know so much about the British retailing business? My company isn't going to make a profit and Carpetright, which has long been regarded as the bellwether of UK retailing certainly isn't going to make a profit. I've no doubt that some firms will still manage to make a profit but, for most retailers, it will be much lower than in previous years and many will go to the wall. Perhaps if you'd been in a Barratts' shoe shop on a good day for them, you'd have jumped to the conclusion that they are making a fortune. Regrettably, they have had to call in the receiver with the closure of 300 shops and hundreds of job losses.

From the way that you stated in your earlier post, and in capital letters, that PROFITs will still be made, I get the impression that you believe that making a profit is somehow unfair and unacceptable. The shareholders in Carpetright for example, who last year received a dividend on their shares will this year possibly not receive one and at best will get a much smaller one. Shareholders aren't all rich capitalists, they're ordinary people investing via ISAs and savings bonds, they're pension funds which invest heavily in British business in order to make their members funds work hard. Profitable firms are good for Britain and private sector profitability is what pays for the public sector and for schools and hospitals but despite all this there are still some people who somehow think that making a profit is wrong! Have we learned nothing from the fate of countries which didn't allow private enterprise?
 
I feel that over years marketing has been very cleaver in encouraging people to buy what they don't really need, but are made to feel that they are a social pariah if they don't have a certain item.

Take the Iphone 4s for example, many people "need" to have this new toy, not for any reason but it's the latest from Apple. Like with most things, people don't "need" functionality on their phone or laptop, but the ad men make us feel guilty if we don't have it.

I buy the tools necessary for the job, my laptop is now 12 months old, got 3 gig of ram etc, but I use it for a number of applications that require this for my work, yet people are being sold the idea that you need a top of the range PC, when in reality most people use it for browsing or maybe writing a letter or simple spread sheets.

So by creating this demand, premium prices are charged and paid to get the latest bit of kit, then in a few months when there's another "better" item, the price is dropped to get rid.

This is happening throughout much of the retail trade, most items are considered expendable, or short lifed so very few buy quality items that will last as fashion makes it out of date

Now there's nothing wrong with making a profit, you have to to stay alive in business, but I like many others have seen my profit margins dropping over the past few years. So when we see stock being reduced, it is for one reason only, it's a short lifed item in fashion terms and if you're left holding the stock when no one wants it, you take a hit.

I now keep very little stock, but rely on the supplier getting it to me just in time, but that's no good if you are a shop or similar.

Sadly, there are many retail outlets closing down as they can't compete with the big boys.

I also worked for what was at the time one of the major supermarket chains, they grew rapidly, but the management capability and infrastructure didn't reflect the requirements of the business, so although the turnover was in the 100's of millions they eventually declined and sold out.

For myself, I buy the most appropriate product that I require and only upgrade when it fails to do what I need. I use my wifes old phones (after all, I only mistreat them anyway)
 
Trouble is, most of the manufacturers are in China or the Far East, a long way to go!!
 
Some excellent and well composed replies to this thread. It has been a strange year so far, internet sales booming, brand new van sales exceeding last year but pre-owned vans well down leading to excess stock.

There are some desperate people out there now hungry for just cash flow to pay the bills, Blacks Leisure virtually going bust with Millets and they are camping suppliers and there are others in the same boat in our industry.

Be a very interesting and hard 2012 in my view

Peter
 
I don't think we've seen the bottom yet either....just a breather before the next dip....it's widely predicted as given that the EU will be back in recession in 2012 which will wipe the little progress we have been making over the last two years.
 
basildog said:
I say that if manufacturers had any sense they would abolish all deals with retailers and sell from the factory gate as rthey say as in my mind and having been in business for over 20 years so many people take a cut that by the time the poor old consumer gets hold of the item it has doubled or more in price !!!!!!
Click to expand...

Brilliant idea, so that when we want anything we'd have to drive a hundred miles to the factory, assuming of course that it's not in the far east. And if we wanted to compare and get the feel of two or three different models we'd have to go to three factories in different parts of the country. We could then go to the dairy farm for some milk and the livestock farm for some meat. We wouldn't need to spend money on daft things like motorhomes as we'd have no time to use them as we'd be all over the country doing our shopping! Just think of the money we'd save by abolishing retailers. Or would we?
 
I have recently bought two Shower trays and two Shower surrounds from Homebase here in Southampton and had to wait a Month for them to be delivered , I got them Friday last, so how does that work in these so called hard times?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Back
Top