Butane or Propane

[Steve121]

Steve 121 appears to be a driving instructor, I am a qualified Lpg gas engineer so I shall let you decide who has more experience and knowledge , btw I lived full time four and a half years so might just know summat occupations aside

propane is the answer for winter no doubt .....extra ECV's you dont need as you correctly state can switch the bottle off


Channa

Channa, have you actually tried using butane in your van in winter?

The fact of the matter is I have used butane all year round with no problems. So have hundreds, probably thousands of others. I agree propane is better, but my van never gets particularly cold inside.

As I said, my main reason for using butane is due to limited space. If I had the space I might use propane, but it's not widely available most places I go.

 

[Channa]

Channa, have you actually tried using butane in your van in winter?

The fact of the matter is I have used butane all year round with no problems. So have hundreds, probably thousands of others. I agree propane is better, but my van never gets particularly cold inside.

As I said, my main reason for using butane is due to limited space. If I had the space I might use propane, but it's not widely available most places I go.

I think you will find the bottles the same physical size, calor for one are well known to repaint from blue to red !! addressing the seasonal market. If butane works for you all year around then why are you agreeing propane is better ? when you are stating butane works for you all year round ? no reason to change to propane surely with your personal experience.! I assure you bottles physically are the same size !!



My personal experience, with a fleet of 287 plus ...When i am asked to safety test on a site open that runs butane February it doesn't work, I need to gas test with propane ! bit of a mockery but there we go .......butane struggles to gas at plus 4 degrees or so ...propane will gas to - 42 c if it gets that cold we have bigger issues than gas I suspect.

Steve I dont need to experiment with butane in winter I know exactly how it works, I lived full time 4 years lpg gas engineer so pretty clued up. If you are seriously suggesting butane is an allyear around gas then you are misguided by whom we dont know........perhaps I should share my theories on approaching them roundabouts !

Channa

 

[vwalan]

mind i can upset things here in winter i use butane .
in summer i use propane .
i leave here with a propane in case of emergency . but all winter its either cepsa or maroc butane /pentane gas . i find it works lovely all winter .
in summer i finish off the propane so i can leave here with a full bottle .
i knew that would put cat amongst pigeons .
as to the bottles many are dual stamped around the bottom edge . propane /butane .
propane seems to go in either the blue or the red bottles . and work.
in morocco for awhile they would only put propane into uk bottles . i did wonder if it would work with a butane reg , but it did . that was just after the change to clip on butane regs in 76 .
does seem like all this reg changing is only a fuss .

 

[Channa]

smiling Alan but Maroc in winter slightly different to the climes of the cairngorms lakes etc as you are well aware other wise you would trip north !!



channa

 

[Steve121]

I think you will find the bottles the same physical size, calor for one are well known to repaint from blue to red !! addressing the seasonal market. If butane works for you all year around then why are you agreeing propane is better ? when you are stating butane works for you all year round ? no reason to change to propane surely with your personal experience.! I assure you bottles physically are the same size !!



My personal experience, with a fleet of 287 plus ...When i am asked to safety test on a site open that runs butane February it doesn't work, I need to gas test with propane ! bit of a mockery but there we go .......butane struggles to gas at plus 4 degrees or so ...propane will gas to - 42 c if it gets that cold we have bigger issues than gas I suspect.

Steve I dont need to experiment with butane in winter I know exactly how it works, I lived full time 4 years lpg gas engineer so pretty clued up. If you are seriously suggesting butane is an allyear around gas then you are misguided by whom we dont know........perhaps I should share my theories on approaching them roundabouts !

Channa

If you read my posts again you'll see I use a Campingaz 907 bottle, which is significantly smaller than any Calor bottle I've ever seen, so please post a link to a Calor bottle of similar size. Yes, I know you can get a propane bottle of a similar size, sold under the Sievert brand, I think, but it's not widely available and hideously expensive. The disposable Coleman and equivalents are too expensive and small to be of practical use.

I really don't understand why you question the fact that I agree propane is, in most respects, better. You really need to read my posts properly, then you might understand where I'm coming from on this.

I am not suggesting butane is suitable as an all year round gas, when the bottle is kept inside the vehicle at reasonable temperatures, I'm stating it as a certain fact from my own experience and that of others, some of whom are members of this forum. How many people do you know who suffer a 4° temperature inside their van? As I said, there are many people using butane exclusively in motorhomes all year round. Virtually every small VW campervan and similar uses butane 907 bottles, and it doesn't stop them using their cooking stoves etc. in winter.

 

[Fazerloz]

My first van had no heating and was on butane and used all year, as soon as the temp dropped to near freezing the butane was useless and wouldn't run the hob. Propane will still work at nearly -40. A gas locker should have a decent hole in the floor so I don't think van insulation will make much difference.

 

[Channa]

If you read my posts again you'll see I use a Campingaz 907 bottle, which is significantly smaller than any Calor bottle I've ever seen, so please post a link to a Calor bottle of similar size. Yes, I know you can get a propane bottle of a similar size, sold under the Sievert brand, I think, but it's not widely available and hideously expensive. The disposable Coleman and equivalents are too expensive and small to be of practical use.

I really don't understand why you question the fact that I agree propane is, in most respects, better. You really need to read my posts properly, then you might understand where I'm coming from on this.

I am not suggesting butane is suitable as an all year round gas, when the bottle is kept inside the vehicle at reasonable temperatures, I'm stating it as a certain fact from my own experience and that of others, some of whom are members of this forum. How many people do you know who suffer a 4° temperature inside their van? As I said, there are many people using butane exclusively in motorhomes all year round. Virtually every small VW campervan and similar uses butane 907 bottles, and it doesn't stop them using their cooking stoves etc. in winter.

i question your posts because you are suggesting butane will gas all year around.(your intimation) the temperature inside the van is immaterial ...you suggested butane was good all year around only need to look at your posts to see that .....you are changing your tune . You then say propane would be better all of a sudden if it fitted ...well it will same size bottles...then you share you use 907,s first time you have shared that if not mistaken .

Propane is better in winter period, for 101 reasons, I dont mean to be disrespectful but your posts have been innaccurate in the extreme . And the only reason I have questioned and illustrated the fact from fiction,

If I have read your posts incorrectly happy to be put right

Channa

 

[vwalan]

i do remember seeing that size bottles painted red and holding propane . cant think of the name , keep thinking impco or something like that gas . used to see them alot .
bet someone knows the name of them .
same as camping gas but propane .

 

[Fazerloz]

The OP asked Butane or Propane questioning winter in his new van which I think is a autoquest 155. I would think this will have gas fridge, gas heating, gas hot water, gas oven and hob. When it gets close to freezing Butane will certainly not gas off at a sufficient rate to supply all these appliances. Change to Propane and use that all year, job sorted.

 

[Channa]

The OP asked Butane or Propane questioning winter in his new van which I think is a autoquest 155. I would think this will have gas fridge, gas heating, gas hot water, gas oven and hob. When it gets close to freezing Butane will certainly not gas off at a sufficient rate to supply all these appliances. Change to Propane and use that all year, job sorted.

exactly , but when someone is suggesting butane will be ok sorry I cant help but respond !!


Channa

 

[Steve121]

If butane is so efficient at sub zero temps ( which it isn't...will fail to gas. around -1c although performance impaired at 4 -5 c) why are bulk containers to domestic properties exclusively propane ? furthermore the road lining lads , etc all use propane not butane .....has to be a reason ?

your theory too on insulation seriously flawed ..... and where is the benefit and how have you arrived at the 12 percent extra energy ? Butane produces 3200 btu/s per cubic ft Propane 2500 btu per cubic foot ......but then oxygen requirements lower explosion limits and upper differ ....I ask for two reasons the volume of gas produced per volume of liquid is .41m cubed with butane .54 with propane .......per kilo ....

I am curious as a qualified gas engineer

Channa

I never suggested butane is more efficient if the bottle is exposed to sub zero temperatures. Throughout this thread my posts have stated that the butane bottle needs to be inside the relatively warm vehicle.

Bulk containers are not relevant to anything I've been saying, as they are exposed to low temperatures.

See the link in post #4 with regard to 12% extra energy.

Kindly explain the serious flaws regarding insulation.

 

[jake]

Wood burner is the answer!!

 

[Steve121]

i question your posts because you are suggesting butane will gas all year around.(your intimation) the temperature inside the van is immaterial ...you suggested butane was good all year around only need to look at your posts to see that .....you are changing your tune . You then say propane would be better all of a sudden if it fitted ...well it will same size bottles...then you share you use 907,s first time you have shared that if not mistaken .

Propane is better in winter period, for 101 reasons, I dont mean to be disrespectful but your posts have been innaccurate in the extreme . And the only reason I have questioned and illustrated the fact from fiction,

If I have read your posts incorrectly happy to be put right

Channa

Well, you have clearly demonstrated you have either not read my posts properly or misunderstood some of them.

Try reading post #4, my first post in this thread, and you will see that's where I first stated I use a 907 bottle.

I notice you have failed answer the question I put to you in post #22, that is to enlighten us on your own personal experience of using butane bottles, stored inside a van, in winter.

As I see it, you have failed to understand the points I have made, and basing your responses on theory rather than real world experience, or using examples not relevant to the points I made.

 

[Channa]

Well, you have clearly demonstrated you have either not read my posts properly or misunderstood some of them.

Try reading post #4, my first post in this thread, and you will see that's where I first stated I use a 907 bottle.

I notice you have failed answer the question I put to you in post #22, that is to enlighten us on your own personal experience of using butane bottles, stored inside a van, in winter.

As I see it, you have failed to understand the points I have made, and basing your responses on theory rather than real world experience, or using examples not relevant to the points I made.

you are quite right and accept my apologies you did mention camping gaz 907;s

however your words

I agree 16° is insignificant, but the 12% extra energy from butane is useful.

I doubt if many people drive their van to a high enough altitude for oxygen to be a problem. The highest I've taken mine so far is the Alps and Atlas ranges.

As I and others have stated, using butane all year round, including sub zero temperatures, is no problem at all.

I think the point about modern vans being well insulated is that there is more heat inside the van which is conducted through the gas bottle to assist evaporation. It would have to be bitterly cold inside the van before butane evaporation became an issue. When it's getting cold in my van I turn on my 5kW Eberspacher diesel heater for a few minutes.


I dont see too many others stating butane is suitable all year around, later you agree propane could be the better option and yet you state butane all year around at sub zero temperatures ! make your mind up !!...I assured you butane will not work sub zero temperatures so interested as to how you have bucked the trend.

As for your assumption I am talking theory ....Theory tends not to lend itself living full time 4 and a half years including winter !...clumber park over Christmas site closed due to snow stranded ( in a sense)

Also a bit like a driving test, the examiners tend not to give our cards to work are we not capable of theory and hands on examination ! So thats my experience seeing as you ask.

I gave a lengthy and boring explanation re insulation in the van re your comments of butane in vans perhaps you too would care to re read

Channa

 

[witzend]

i have seen some on ebay that are just the hose and some which are the hose and a what appears a shut off valve which are quite a bit more expensive which would you advise to get as to me the additional shut of valve to me seems to be overkill as you can shut it off at the bottle any way?
your views on this would be appreciated.

many thanks

The hose with shut of valve is a safety device to operate automatically if anything should rupture the gas supply while the van is in motion. If you don't intend to ever be driving with the bottle turned on you don't need it.

 

[Channa]

The hose with shut of valve is a safety device to operate automatically if anything should rupture the gas supply while the van is in motion. If you don't intend to ever be driving with the bottle turned on you don't need it.

I havent seen the hose referred to, but you are suggesting it has an upso valve ( under pressure shut off) which works as you describe but I have only ever seen them on regulators!! I bet half a shandy before the year is out a newbie perhaps will post changed bottle no gas forgetting or un aware their reg as an upso valve on bulk tanks you get opso valves over pressure shut off valves ....a lot of modern regulators do not have Upso's , for legislative purposes the EGV emergency control valve is the valve on the bottle. interpretation of the rules

Channa

 

[witzend]

Not New

I havent seen the hose referred to, but you are suggesting it has an upso valve ( under pressure shut off)

I posted a link to the hose earlier I first saw one 5 yrs ago on a shelf at a motor home dealers and they where fitting them to all motor homes they supplied. I'm surprised someone in your profession hasn't seen one


truma regulator orange propane lpg gas hose Drivesafe Drive Safe | eBay

 

[vwalan]

lets be fair channa was working on mobile home sites . mainly statics .
i prefer the ones that go directly on the bottle . https://www.bes.co.uk/product/62a~LPG~958~-Multi-Purpose-Safety-Fitting.html
at least then you can replace the hose if need be .

 

[witzend]

I am a qualified Lpg gas engineer so I shall let you decide who has more experience and knowledge

This is what he said earlier in this thread and he has always appeared to know what he's talking about and if you look at the link I posted its the same thing as yours.

Personally I like these hose's saves turning the gas on an off continually to stay safe

 

[vwalan]

i dont trust items with truma tickets on them . i find truma is another name for poor quality. hee hee.
bet B>E>S> can supply a hose as well cheaper and possibly better quality .
bes are a real good place for quality and price .