Birmingham Riots

Also mooted on the news this morning was the general concensus of opinion that the youth of today need to be conscripted into national service and as usual like most politicians we had Nick Clegg side step the question and just waffle on about these looters being just out for criminality.
When will we ever have these people answer a straight question,they couldnt even lie straight in bed.
 
National Service

National Service or conscription military has never worked in the past, certainly make things interesting for the Police though, the youths would know how to shoot their illegal guns properly but what is a few extra dead Policemen. What is clear is to avoid esculation, alienating the youth, you may well see those guns they shoot each other with, targeting the Police or indeed us, the public. This country is awash with illegal weapons what we need to do is calm down, the Police are dealing with job effectively!
Creating meaningful training and jobs costs less than the millions now being thrown away on Police overtime and silly charges making them unemployable for their whole life!
 
robjmckinney said:
National Service or conscription military has never worked in the past, certainly make things interesting for the Police though, the youths would know how to shoot their illegal guns properly but what is a few extra dead Policemen. What is clear is to avoid esculation, alienating the youth, you may well see those guns they shoot each other with, targeting the Police or indeed us, the public. This country is awash with illegal weapons what we need to do is calm down, the Police are dealing with job effectively!
Creating meaningful training and jobs costs less than the millions now being thrown away on Police overtime and silly charges making them unemployable for their whole life!
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Conscription would lead to a work ethic and discipline which these teenagers are not getting at home or in a society where there are few jobs.This leads to apathy and they then treat benefits as a career choice.
Those that were bought up properly will already know that the world does not owe them a living and for the better part look to build a pro-active life for themselves.I also think we are allowing the benefits culture to lie about in bed and do nothing to earn their benefits.They need that work ethic as i already stated,lets get them to earn their benefits by working for our community making them get out of bed in the morning at the very least have them sign on in the old traditional way not once a fortnight but every day if needed.Taking it easy whilst the rest of us are working to fund their life styles needs to come to an end.

The police are not effective,they are doing there jobs to the best of their abilities but you can see that their hands are tied as they appeared to be scared to do anything,remember everything they do is now recorded in someway and in trying to do their jobs properly they face repercusions later on down the line when umpteen rioters can then plead police brutality.What the police need are powers to use plastic bullets,water cannons and physical force if warnings are not headed.It will also help if we changed the judicial system so we no longer have remmisions,and that when you are banged up you serve your full term.I have read a lot recently about sheriff arpaus (sorry about the spelling) system in the U.S this sounds more of a punishment and i do like the 3 strikes and life plan too.
All we need are more prisons and some strong sentancing because the only thing criminals fear at the moment are each other.
 
Conscription

The military don't want it, regular professional soldiers are not the jailers of failed social experiments. The 'Kray Twins' certainly became better people through National Service, you cannot force people to be good citizens. It is a learnt behavior through schools not within families, that was the reason schools became compulsary in the late 19th century. None of the youths today accept the discipline provided by the the military, the failure rate is massive and a big waste of scarce funds. You are already to late with the expansion of the underclass from the norm of 2% to the government manufactured 12% of the population.
Social breakdown will clearly grow simply because we have left it to long with many generations affected, so it will take generations to correct the problem, like it or lump it, trying to turn the clock back will never work!
 
I have wanted out of this country for such a long time and wish that I had the means to do so, however there are so many things that keeps me here, of course a close knit family being one of them. Also I love the beauty of this country and we are so very lucky, .......... but where the hell did it all go wrong?????

My husband and I like so many other families in this country work so hard for what we have, there is not a day goes by when my hubby doesnt do a fifteen hour day and I hold down two jobs, just so we can have a half decent life and buy a clapped out 22 year old campervan but hey thats suits us lovely. In my job I meet parents and children who lets just say the majority of them are on benefits, they cant get up in the mornings until Jeremy Kyle blasts on their top of the range widescreen TV'S .....these children have it all, all the material things they could wish for, it seems to me its just handed to them on a plate. Mum complains 'why she cant get free school uniform anymore'? and I say 'the money is all in with your benefits', she then moans that she will have to pawn every single piece of jewellry (she has three rings on just one finger alone) to pay for her childs blazer, I look at her in total disbelief, she has an ipod in her ear and a top of the range mobile phone in one hand and stinks of cigerettes.

I too came from a broken home, no money blah blah blah .......it made me more determined to provide and bring up my children the best way I could and lead by example........Me and my husband are not perfect parents by any stretch of the imagination but my god we have tried hard to show right from wrong.

These thugs are taught from an early age that the whole world owes them a favour and thats is thier god given right to steal, cause violence, damage, terrorise innocent victims, they are a disgrace and I would like to see all those involved and arrested named and shamed. I hope when they lay their head on thier pillow at night they are tortured with the fact they have caused harm or destroyed someones living and shattered peoples lives, but who am I kidding...........these people have no morals, values, or a sense of shame, and they will continue to play the victims, and I like many others know that this country is on its knees now but will continue to deteriorate even more so (if thats at all possible!!!!!!!).........:mad:

PS .....In case I am accused of not being PC.....I am not stereotyping all people on benefits, its the majority of what I see in my day to day life thats all. :wave:
 
It was the simple things that stopped the riots in the North.

For the Darleks it was steps that prove insurmountable.

Wasn't it our bacteria that solved the War of the Worlds

The magic solution to the thugs was.... The Rain

Let's face it, £120 Trainers, Designer label gear, I Phones etc don't associate with rain

These "Poor" people just don't like getting cold or wet.
 
coolasluck said:
Another message that no doubt will only apply to the non religous:


David Cameron today in parliment stated:

He announced a crackdown on facemasks and a review of curfews during an emergency recall of Parliament.



I wonder if he means it and does that now mean that muslim women with their veils now tow the line with the rest of us or will it mean one rule for us whilst the muslim faith(or religon in general should anyone think i am being not politically correct) carries on as normal complaining to the E.U and its human rights.

Actions are what are needed now instead of talking.Lets tell Brussels that this is what we have decided and it is now end of story.
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I don't think you'll find that there were too many veiled muslim women looting. Let's get this misconception about the Human Rights Act (which is part of UK law) sorted out: we ALL have the SAME rights under the Act; there is no favouritism for one sector of society over another; and all RIGHTS go hand in hand with RESPONSIBILITIES - in other words, if you are doing nothing wrong you have every right to wear a scarf over your lower face to protect you from the cold but if you are acting suspiciously you don't and the police have every right to remove your face-covering. As I said earlier, there is no easy solution but we certainly won't get anywhere by going down blind alleys like this one.
 
Nobody is saying Muslim women are looting,if you are going to ban masks and veiling the face,then there should be no ifs or buts John,end of story and you abide by our laws of the land.If you are going to allow religon or any other group to be exempt then we may as well not ban anything.

As far as i am concerned veils and masks are no differant then going into the local bank with a balaclava on.
Balaclavas, face veils, motorcycle helmets or a halloween mask they are all the same and should be treated so.
 
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Wonder why riots are always at night and never early in the morning?

Stupid me, they're all still in bed!

Was it the rain that stopped them, or were they just tired from not being used to physical exertion?
 
coolasluck said:
Nobody is saying Muslim women are looting,if you are going to ban masks and veiling the face,then there should be no ifs or buts John,end of story and you abide by our laws of the land.If you are going to allow religon or any other group to be exempt then we may as well not ban anything.

As far as i am concerned veils and masks are no differant then going into the local bank with a balaclava on.
Balaclavas, face veils, motorcycle helmets or a halloween mask they are all the same and should be treated so.
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Sorry but this is confused thinking. As I said, it all depends on context - a motorcycle helmet on a motorcycle is not only justified but essential; a motorcycle helmet in a bank is suspicious and the bank and the police have a right to demand its removal. Further, the rights associated with religion are tempered by the responsibilities associated with being part of society - in other words, if a veiled person is acting suspiciously then the police have a right to remove that veil. Yes, they may complain thet their human rights have been infringed but to complain isn't necesarily to win and if the police can demonstrate they had a good reason to be suspicious then the complaint will be dismissed. And as for your other point - I am not in favour of bans generally because they are counter-productive and give unsavoury elements an excuse to complain that they are being victimised (hence my repeated posts against deleting threads and banning members from this forum).

Talking of unsavoury elements - Patrick Moore may be interesting to watch as a television astronomer but I cannot take anything he or the rest of the UKIP brigade say as contributing anything positive to this debate!
 
paul h said:
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337
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This is a good example of what I was saying earlier about knee-jerk reactions. At first sight you might think that nobody could disagree with the petition (especially if your shop has just been burned down). But in the cold light of day, nothing is ever as simple as that. I give just two things to think about:

1. Many of the rioters were in well-paid jobs and did not depend on benefits, so why should they be punished less?
2. If one rotten apple in a family of, say, four other siblings who are sensible and law-abiding is found guilty of looting, why should his innocent brothers and sisters suffer?

Yes, removal of benefits should be an option open for the courts to use but such decisions need to be made on a case-by-case judgement not imposed as a general course of action.
 
John H said:
Let's get this misconception about the Human Rights Act (which is part of UK law) sorted out: we ALL have the SAME rights under the Act; there is no favouritism for one sector of society over another
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For me this is whats wrong with the human rights act. It should be a law abiding citizens rights act. Why should a murderer, rapist, mugger, looter etc have the same rights as a law abiding person. A convicted murderer on the TV the other day was bleating how its his right to have the right to vote. He didn't think much of the right to life of the girl he killed. They promised people would serve life imprisonment after they removed the death penalty. What's it now about 9 years per victim? a lot less if you commit mass murder.
 
sparrks said:
For me this is whats wrong with the human rights act. It should be a law abiding citizens rights act. Why should a murderer, rapist, mugger, looter etc have the same rights as a law abiding person. A convicted murderer on the TV the other day was bleating how its his right to have the right to vote. He didn't think much of the right to life of the girl he killed. They promised people would serve life imprisonment after they removed the death penalty. What's it now about 9 years per victim? a lot less if you commit mass murder.
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Hi

Absolutely correct! As I said earlier, when you talk about RIGHTS you also have to talk about RESPONSIBILITIES and that is the way the system works. If you commit a crime you lose some of your rights (the more severe the crime, the more rights you lose) - that is what crime and punishment is all about. But you have to start off from the position that until some of us forfeit those rights we all have them - innocent until proven guilty but punished if proven guilty.
 
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