Battle Born (and possibly Transporter Energy) battery problem

colinm said:
If you have either of the batteries in title then you need to check them out. FYI Transporter Energy is the name used in UK.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. Battle Born are (were) the main "Go To" Lithium Battery providers in the US for RVers and their marketing really pushed on their "Made in the USA" (which I am not sure they really were) and claimed better quality as all other competitors.
Assuming they will replace the batteries, this is likely going to cost them a shedload of money. (If they don't, no doubt a "class action" will be coming their way as their main customer base is American!)
 
wildebus said:
Very interesting. Battle Born are (were) the main "Go To" Lithium Battery providers in the US for RVers and their marketing really pushed on their "Made in the USA" (which I am not sure they really were) and claimed better quality as all other competitors.
Assuming they will replace the batteries, this is likely going to cost them a shedload of money. (If they don't, no doubt a "class action" will be coming their way as their main customer base is American!)
Click to expand...
I hadn't heard of them being used in UK, but when I checked they are being sold as 'Transporter Energy' here in UK, although I don't recall hearing that name before.
 
mistericeman said:
You surprise me with that Trev.....

Mind you when that glass jar accumulator that you take for charging every couple of weeks eventually stops powering your cats whisker radio.... Who knows
Click to expand...
I had a bbc cats whisker radio taken from a old aunts home, my destrutive uncle busted it up as he did with everything he touched.
Also a we cottage i bought many years back had a upturned boat with glass acumulators as the old chap who lived there charged them for folk.
 
I had a search to see if there is any other stuff on-line about this issue and bit confused by this ....

Will Prowses original Video on the BattleBorn from 2019, which was very positive and complimentary (fair enough with what he found at the time)
Code: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5E30u-66VI
And there is an updated description saying the following:
"BUYER BEWARE: this battery has a design flaw that I missed in the video. Notice that there is a aluminum bolt with two nuts (yes, it is not steel) connecting the positive terminal to the cell pack below it. Under normal use, it will become loose and cause the positive terminal to overheat. People on the forum are experiencing overheating when this bolt becomes loose. Horrible! The company claimed in the past that it's supposed to act as a fuse and it's a special grade of an aluminum but it is a bad excuse and it is coming loose and causing heating. They should use a fuse instead. This is a bad design. Do not buy these batteries."

This ties up with the new video generally, but according to the update, that was posted three years ago?? I guess it must have been updated in the last day, but don't understand the "3 years ago" as you would think the date would be either be the original date (so 6 years ago) or the latest change?
1765398417820.png


This claim from the company about the bolt acting as a fuse I would find rather unbelievable as for one thing it is not possible to open the casing without destroying it and you don't generally have a fuse that cannot be accessed on a product costing many many hundreds of pounds/dollars.
 
This video from a year ago (comparing cheap lithiums against Battleborn) is interesting as well and it mentions the claim about the bolt fuse which the video maker (another well respected technical youtuber) is clearly dubious about as well.
 
I want to share some insight from my own hands-on experience, because I’ve repaired and re-cased six of these batteries.

In every battery I’ve opened, the bolts were not loose. These use a double locking nut arrangement, locked against each other, with thread-lock applied as well. All six were solidly tight.

What I have consistently seen is the following:
  • The through-bolt on the positive terminal is an M6 stainless steel bolt.
  • An M6 stainless bolt is perfectly adequate for the 100A continuous rating the battery is designed for.
  • However, several of the failed units had been used well beyond their intended load, such as running high-power inverters from a single battery (or a pair of batteries)—for example, 3000W inverters.
When a battery is overloaded:
  1. That M6 bolt becomes the narrowest current path.
  2. It heats up under excessive load.
  3. When stainless steel heats, it stretches slightly.
  4. As it cools, the double-nut locking system prevents it from fully contracting back to its original length.
  5. Repeat this cycle enough times, and the bolt ends up a tiny bit longer than before — only a fraction of a millimetre, but enough to introduce resistance between the copper bus bar and the brass terminal.
  6. That resistance creates more heat, and the cycle continues.
I work with a company that has hundreds (if not thousands) of these batteries in service, and out of all those, there have been only 6 cases where this issue occurred — and every one of those was in an installation where the batteries were being pushed beyond spec.

One important point:

The BMS does not cut out instantly on overload.

It allows a short window of over-current tolerance to accommodate normal surge behaviour. That brief period is enough for excessive current to start heating the terminal hardware when someone is trying to run loads far above what a single battery (or pair) is designed for.

So from what I’ve seen, the problem isn’t the bolt “coming loose,” but rather thermal cycling caused by sustained overload conditions, which slowly affects the bolt length and compromises the terminal contact surface.


IMG_6557 Medium.jpeg

IMG_6559 Medium.jpeg
 
wildebus said:
I had a search to see if there is any other stuff on-line about this issue and bit confused by this ....

Will Prowses original Video on the BattleBorn from 2019, which was very positive and complimentary (fair enough with what he found at the time)
Code: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5E30u-66VI
And there is an updated description saying the following:
"BUYER BEWARE: this battery has a design flaw that I missed in the video. Notice that there is a aluminum bolt with two nuts (yes, it is not steel) connecting the positive terminal to the cell pack below it. Under normal use, it will become loose and cause the positive terminal to overheat. People on the forum are experiencing overheating when this bolt becomes loose. Horrible! The company claimed in the past that it's supposed to act as a fuse and it's a special grade of an aluminum but it is a bad excuse and it is coming loose and causing heating. They should use a fuse instead. This is a bad design. Do not buy these batteries."

This ties up with the new video generally, but according to the update, that was posted three years ago?? I guess it must have been updated in the last day, but don't understand the "3 years ago" as you would think the date would be either be the original date (so 6 years ago) or the latest change?
View attachment 148161

This claim from the company about the bolt acting as a fuse I would find rather unbelievable as for one thing it is not possible to open the casing without destroying it and you don't generally have a fuse that cannot be accessed on a product costing many many hundreds of pounds/dollars.
Click to expand...
I updated that a few weeks ago, not three years ago. Added "2025 update". Still shows three years ago:

Screenshot_20251219_185609_YouTube.jpg
 
Admin said:
I want to share some insight from my own hands-on experience, because I’ve repaired and re-cased six of these batteries.

In every battery I’ve opened, the bolts were not loose. These use a double locking nut arrangement, locked against each other, with thread-lock applied as well. All six were solidly tight.

What I have consistently seen is the following:
  • The through-bolt on the positive terminal is an M6 stainless steel bolt.
  • An M6 stainless bolt is perfectly adequate for the 100A continuous rating the battery is designed for.
  • However, several of the failed units had been used well beyond their intended load, such as running high-power inverters from a single battery (or a pair of batteries)—for example, 3000W inverters.
When a battery is overloaded:
  1. That M6 bolt becomes the narrowest current path.
  2. It heats up under excessive load.
  3. When stainless steel heats, it stretches slightly.
  4. As it cools, the double-nut locking system prevents it from fully contracting back to its original length.
  5. Repeat this cycle enough times, and the bolt ends up a tiny bit longer than before — only a fraction of a millimetre, but enough to introduce resistance between the copper bus bar and the brass terminal.
  6. That resistance creates more heat, and the cycle continues.
I work with a company that has hundreds (if not thousands) of these batteries in service, and out of all those, there have been only 6 cases where this issue occurred — and every one of those was in an installation where the batteries were being pushed beyond spec.

One important point:

The BMS does not cut out instantly on overload.

It allows a short window of over-current tolerance to accommodate normal surge behaviour. That brief period is enough for excessive current to start heating the terminal hardware when someone is trying to run loads far above what a single battery (or pair) is designed for.

So from what I’ve seen, the problem isn’t the bolt “coming loose,” but rather thermal cycling caused by sustained overload conditions, which slowly affects the bolt length and compromises the terminal contact surface.


View attachment 148186
View attachment 148187
Click to expand...
Oh of course, mine were not loose. The plastic deforming is causing a loose connection. I really should have worded that better.
 
If indeed it's a design feature as seems to be claimed then it's a poor one. The BMS has access to current and time factors and is the place to monitor and control transient and long term over current not a crappy nut and bolt.
 
molly 2 said:
,makes me wonder how safe cheap lifepo4 are
Click to expand...
I can understand that but in my eyes the video simply displays that paying a lot of money for a battery doesn't guarantees perfection, what you MAY get with a 'better' brand is a better support and guarantee. The tear downs of cheap LFP batteries on the net often show areas which could be improved upon which you'd expect because ultimately they are built to a budget but I can't recall anything serious dangerous.
There does seem to be an increasing trend where the very cheap batteries are using cheap BMSs with NO over current cut out protection so a fuse on the output of each battery would be required just as you'd use with Lead Acid.
 
Just in case anyone is interested there's a very interesting video where Will addresses the response letter Battleborn sent to a customer. Essentially Battleborn double down on their reasoning for the poor internal connection point with frankly ridiculous explanations and excuses. All very poor by Battleborn IMHO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Back
Top