Attitude to 'No Overnight' Signs

[John H]

I think there is a world of difference between a householder putting up a Beware of the Dog sign which is advisory, and is clear that it is advisory, and a misleading council sign giving all the appearance of being mandatory. John, you are an ex-councillor and you and I will never agree on this. Of course you want the freedom to mislead. We should not have to make our own judgements - we should know that the sign is binding or it is not binding; we should not have to decide.

Not misleading at all if you know the rules. If there is no reference to a TRO on the sign then it is not a mandatory one. Simple.

 

[John H]

It's most likely common sense to you because you have none!!!

To compare a "Beware of the dog" sign to a Council backed publicly funded 'no legality' sign "No overnight Camping" just shows me that you are a truly missed member of Dave Sutch's political party.

Dear, oh dear! And you say I have no common sense!

 

[ricc]

road signs that have no legal backing erected by councils is only the tip of the iceberg , its got to the state now that whenever a council tells you you cant do something you have to ask the simple question "which law is that then" in many cases they are just blustering knowing that joe public is not a legal expert in everything and many will beleive what they are told by an "official"

it happens all the time with planning....the little guys beleive the half truths the council spouts , and the big developers apear to get away with murder cos they know the law as well or better than the councils.


another classic from what 10 years or so ago was the campaign to stop parents taking kids on holiday during the school term. councils, government and the media all spouting "take your child out of school for a holiday and you will be prosecuted. for truancy" fact is there is no law that allows the council or anyone else to prosecute parents for taking their children on one holiday in term time. we did it whilst ours were in primary school.... had a lot of letters from the school and the council and it was all bluster and downright lies. you just have to ask the council which law youre breaking then google whatever answere they come up with.

last time i checked a council official misrepresenting the law was a criminal offence.... but good luck with actually getting one prosecuted or even disciplined for it. chief education officers get to take early retirement, ombudsmen wont do anything until the county solicitor has finished an internal investigation, for which which he has no time limit, etc.

 

[John H]

road signs that have no legal backing erected by councils is only the tip of the iceberg , its got to the state now that whenever a council tells you you cant do something you have to ask the simple question "which law is that then" in many cases they are just blustering knowing that joe public is not a legal expert in everything and many will beleive what they are told by an "official"

it happens all the time with planning....the little guys beleive the half truths the council spouts , and the big developers apear to get away with murder cos they know the law as well or better than the councils.

last time i checked a council official misrepresenting the law was a criminal offence.... but good luck with actually getting one prosecuted or even disciplined for it. chief education officers get to take early retirement, ombudsmen wont do anything until the county solicitor has finished an internal investigation, for which which he has no time limit, etc.

I agree - which is why it is much more fruitful for us to know what the law is and act accordingly rather than force Councils into a situation where they are more likely to bring in more legally-backed signs.

But you have got the last bit wrong. A notice saying simply "No Overnight Parking" is not misrepresenting any law. If they claim they can fine you for it, then that would be misrepresenting the law and there have been several successful prosecutions of Councils for so-doing.

 

[Sharon the Cat]

if there is no reference to a tro on the sign then it is not a mandatory one.

tro ???

 

[Wooie1958]

If there`s a sign up then we will not park there and especially overnight.

As sure as Eggs are Eggs there`s always " One " probably the Local Know It All that will confront you saying " Did you not see the sign ? " etc. etc. etc.

It`s happened to us before ( admittedly a while back ) but, you see the person coming towards you, they stop, look at the sign then look at you, look at the
sign again and then start marching towards you.

When we go away in the van we want as much as possible to enjoy it and feel relaxed especially if we intend to stay the night there.

Have a nice evening meal and then relax by watching some telly / wife does some needlework / have a wander round or just watch the world go by.

The last thing i want is to then start explaining myself to someone that it`s nothing to do with what we are doing there.

My post was more aimed at the likes of Whitby, Scarborough and other possibly seaside towns.

In a remote Forestry Commission Car Park it`s totally different and i would probably stay there.

 

[spigot]

If I see a notice that states "No Motorhomes" or "No Overnight Parking", I leave well alone.

But recently I have been making use of the good weather & have been touring the east coast, Norfolk, Suffolk & Essex & noticed "Pay & Display" car parks with notices "Free Parking 6pm to 8am" & "No Overnight Sleeping"

To me this was an invitation to stay, I could be an insomniac, parking enforcement has gone home & the old bill don't want to know unless someone complains, even then I wonder if they bother.

We spent a few nights in some nice grass seafront car parks & had no trouble at all.

 

[Smaug]

tro ???

Traffic Regulatory Order; Councils have to apply for them & must specify EXACTLY what is banned. That may then leave some wriggle room if you don't quite meet their specification. Basically it is a lot of hassle for them with uncertain outcomes if it isn't done properly & you know how so many Council employees like hard, accurate work.

 

[Deleted member 37170]

If I see a notice that states "No Motorhomes" or "No Overnight Parking", I leave well alone.

But recently I have been making use of the good weather & have been touring the east coast, Norfolk, Suffolk & Essex & noticed "Pay & Display" car parks with notices "Free Parking 6pm to 8am" & "No Overnight Sleeping"

To me this was an invitation to stay, I could be an insomniac, parking enforcement has gone home & the old bill don't want to know unless someone complains, even then I wonder if they bother.

We spent a few nights in some nice grass seafront car parks & had no trouble at all.

We too have spent many nights, not all in one go, at many of Norfolk's car parks. We have been told that we shouldn't park there overnight once and this was last year in Hunstanton. Parking man came up to my window about 8.45am, I was in the cab listening to my music. "You really shouldn't park here overnight" he says. I reply that I have paid for my ticket. "There is a sign that say's no sleeping or camping overnight" he says. I say, you know that the sign is only a request don't you and you really have no power to stop me. "We get complaints from the locals and I have to come and tell you but as long as you pay and move on by tonight I really could not care less" he said.
We then got into a conversation about the music I was playing and spent the best part of half an hour in amusing and interesting banter. He left with a "Have a safe journey". They know it's only bluff. Where was this car park you ask? In Hunstanton council office public car park.

 

[landyrubbertramp]

I agree with those who say that they wouldn't park where they are not wanted. What is the point in ending up with a brick though the window?

As for Council's being deceptive if they put up NO Overnighting signs without TROs to back them up, well what is wrong with a Council (or anybody else) putting up a sign saying they don't want something? If you put up a sign saying "Beware of the Dog" and you don't haver one, you won't get prosecuted for trying to deter burglars. I'd far rather that there were signs meant to discourage that we can make our own judgements about than we forced Council's into a position where they are more likely to establish TROs and enforce penalties. Seems common sense to me.

great if they are not leagl and are trying to discourage lets have no blacks in this village sign or muslims while we are at it shall we, with all due respect their is no logic to your message jhn councils wont waste one second in stopping a small business guy running a corner shop from letting him put a sign on the pavement or council soon come on the radio when ppl put fly posters up, as per my earlier post the council putting up ileagl signs and knowing they are is poor at best

 

[MATS]

I have seen picture signs saying no tents and no caravans - great..... motorhomes ok.

 

[Older Gurna]

I have seen picture signs saying no tents and no caravans - great..... motorhomes ok.

Yep, We've now got emotional blackmail to contend with too! Don't sleep in a van 'cos You'll upset the bunnies!!!
('Baby Dolphins??!...Go on.....don't be a c.......!')

 

[Seannachie]

I'm okay then, because I never park ON forests though I have parked IN them. :wacko:

 

[Older Gurna]

...& I missed the 'on the forest'!!! Still, I'm assuming that cute cartoons are used instead of writing for a reason......

 

[Smaug]

And how does sleeping in a camper cause a fire? is it just the red hot angry bunnies self-immolating?

 

[Derf]

In order to enforce any 'no Overnight Parking' signs / rules, surely there must first be a legal definition of 'Overnight'. If i pull up somewhere at 3 am and have some kip until 8 - 9 am, is that 'overnight'? (Especially in the summer when it starts getting light around half 3).

If anyone knocks your van while you're parked up somewhere, simply tell them you're not staying or haven't been there over night.

 

[ricc]

I agree - which is why it is much more fruitful for us to know what the law is and act accordingly rather than force Councils into a situation where they are more likely to bring in more legally-backed signs.

.

i read that as you suggesting that its ok for councils to put up misleading signs because every member of the public should be conversant with the content of every law that might apply to every sign the council erects... imho your totally out of touch with reality. or as someone else succinctly put it a ravin looney

 

[MrGaz]

I have seen picture signs saying no tents and no caravans - great..... motorhomes ok.

Just like this one at Amble Marina...can this really be taken literally :goodnight:

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[Smaug]

Just like this one at Amble Marina...can this really be taken literally :goodnight:

[/URL][/IMG]

It does not refer to any Traffic Regulation Order, so is simply advisory if on Council Land. If on private land it still carries no legal weight, but you could be sued for trespass if they could prove that you had caused any damage.

 

[John H]

great if they are not leagl and are trying to discourage lets have no blacks in this village sign or muslims while we are at it shall we, with all due respect their is no logic to your message jhn councils wont waste one second in stopping a small business guy running a corner shop from letting him put a sign on the pavement or council soon come on the radio when ppl put fly posters up, as per my earlier post the council putting up ileagl signs and knowing they are is poor at best

Sorry but there is logic. You are breaking no law if you put a "beware of the dog" sign on your property and a council is breaking no law if they put "No Overnight Stays" on theirs. However, there are laws about discriminating against black people or Muslims - and against fly-posting on other people's property.