Are smart motorways smart

Fisherman said:
I agree Trotter, fortunately in Scotland we don’t have your type of smart motorways, we don’t have the same problems you have in England, which is the most densely populated country in Europe. For me smart motorways rely on everyone doing the right thing, and everything running perfect, there is no latitude for human error. Also most accidents and breakdowns occur with very little or no warning, making it impossible in most cases to take the actions required to mitigate as much as possible any consequences. And I also post on a fire service forum, and some of the comments on there are scary. Bottom line they are anything but smart, and they have and will cost lives. The question is are the risks and loss of life acceptable for the benefits they offer in terms of reducing congestion. I think not, but others may disagree. But what angers me is I reckon the term smart motorways is deliberately misleading and for obvious reasons.
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When I see the term "Smart Motorway" I am always reminded of the Govt dept "NICE" - and how they say the C and E stands for "Care Excellence" but many decisions show it really mean "Cost Effective".
 
wildebus said:
When I see the term "Smart Motorway" I am always reminded of the Govt dept "NICE" - and how they say the C and E stands for "Care Excellence" but many decisions show it really mean "Cost Effective".
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Their inappropriate use of euphemisms to hide the reality of what is actually staring us all in the face is actually quite appalling. Why were hard shoulders on motorways thought of as essential when first designed, and what in reality has now changed that allows for them to be removed. You could argue that more traffic makes hard shoulders even more necessary. Yes technology has improved, but that technology is not designed or sufficient to replace hard shoulders, it’s there to support them. In effect what they have done is to use improvements in technology to compromise our safety on motorways. In Scotland we use technology to support our safety, now that’s smart in my view.
 
Fisherman said:
Their inappropriate use of euphemisms to hide the reality of what is actually staring us all in the face is actually quite appalling. Why were hard shoulders on motorways thought of as essential when first designed, and what in reality has now changed that allows for them to be removed. You could argue that more traffic makes hard shoulders even more necessary. Yes technology has improved, but that technology is not designed or sufficient to replace hard shoulders, it’s there to support them. In effect what they have done is to use improvements in technology to compromise our safety on motorways. In Scotland we use technology to support our safety, now that’s smart in my view.
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Why were hard shoulders thought essential. Ernest Marples was the Minister of Transport, also MD of Marples Ridgeway.
Someone had the contract to build motorways. Put a bit extra on the bill?
Someone retired to Monaco. There could be a connection?
 
Thats an interesting point about why they were though essential when M way were first designed. I seem to remember years ago, you wouldn't go fat up a M way without seeing a Morris Minor or Austin Cambridge sitting on hard shoulder, can go many miles these days without seeing stuff on the shoulder. Without the hard shoulder though, things can go very wrong very quickly.
Our hard shoulders are huge compared to most european countries, certainly glad I've not need to use those either. Too narrow for emergency services to use.
 
In the early days of the M1 there was no central reservation barrier and people just turned around, but then there wasn't a speed limit either
 
mark61 said:
Thats an interesting point about why they were though essential when M way were first designed. I seem to remember years ago, you wouldn't go fat up a M way without seeing a Morris Minor or Austin Cambridge sitting on hard shoulder, can go many miles these days without seeing stuff on the shoulder. Without the hard shoulder though, things can go very wrong very quickly.
Our hard shoulders are huge compared to most european countries, certainly glad I've not need to use those either. Too narrow for emergency services to use.
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Narrow emergency lane.
No, not wide enough to stop safely. But possibly far enough off of the carriageway to allow an oncoming vehicle to ease over into the next lane without causing to much mayhem?
 
Whats too much mayhem? Moving out the way to allow emergency vehicles through is far from mayhem, waiting an extra 15 minutes to be cut out of a car may well be considered mayhem.

There are probably many reason why UK roads, while being the busiest are also among the safest in europe. Hard shoulders will be one of those reasons.
 
Don’t know what too much mayhem is tbh. NOT too much mayhem, is not making a difficult situation worse. Simples.🙄
 
Do other European nations have smart motorways, and if so how are they constructed and operated?

Davy
 
mark61 said:
Whats too much mayhem? Moving out the way to allow emergency vehicles through is far from mayhem, waiting an extra 15 minutes to be cut out of a car may well be considered mayhem.

There are probably many reason why UK roads, while being the busiest are also among the safest in europe. Hard shoulders will be one of those reasons.
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Putting my fire service hat on again Mark, I can assure everyone that hard shoulders have saved thousands of lives. On the few occasions that we could not use them, what was a very difficult job, became an impossible job, and folk died because of that.
 
TeamRienza said:
Do other European nations have smart motorways, and if so how are they constructed and operated?

Davy
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Most European motorways have a very narrow strip along the side of the carriageway that you could stop on if desperate with refuges every so often, but then most European motorways are only two lane.
 
RoadTrek Boy said:
Yes, but the drivers are usually 3 sheets on Vodka or drugs. (that maybe a requirement for driving over there. ) 😲😲
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By far the worst driving I've seen in europe is in Lithuania and Latvia, not by locals but drivers from Belarus and Russia and being the corridor between Kaliningrad and Russia, the roads are full of Russain vehicles. Top spec luxury saloons and exotic sports cars, the drivers must think they are on an unrestricted German autobahn, must have paid off all the local police too. Still, they tend to lose out when meeting an artic.
 
I would be more in favour of the mainland Europe narrow but continuous emergency lane over none i.e. 'Smart' m'ways. Watching videos footage of cars driving down the closed lane with a big RED X flashing above the closed lane! A few more ANPR generated fines may make non observers (inpatient drivers) think twice.
 
antiquesam said:
Most European motorways have a very narrow strip along the side of the carriageway that you could stop on if desperate with refuges every so often, but then most European motorways are only two lane.
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I'm not sure if compulsory or just common practice in France, but a broken down vehicle on the shoulder would prompt traffic to move from lane 1 to 2 well in advance. I've started doing that here too.
 
French motorways aren't as busy as ours. Here you inevitably have someone sitting on your back offside wheel trying there damnedest to keep you where you are
 
st3v3 said:
I'm not sure if compulsory or just common practice in France, but a broken down vehicle on the shoulder would prompt traffic to move from lane 1 to 2 well in advance. I've started doing that here too.
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I think more people are doing that these days, mainly larger vehicles.
I wouldn't recommend it to MH drivers though, will take them two hours to get back in lane 1 :p 🤣😂
 
st3v3 said:
I'm not sure if compulsory or just common practice in France, but a broken down vehicle on the shoulder would prompt traffic to move from lane 1 to 2 well in advance. I've started doing that here too.
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Something my dad taught me to do when he taught me to drive when I was 14.
 
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