any small heater recommendations ?

[Byronic]

That's true Alan but J D says small heater not "cheap heater". The smallest room sealed commonly available afaik are fan types eg gas fuelled Propex and Truma. Then there are the really expensive diesel fuelled alternatives such as Webasto and Eberspacher.

 

[windyjools]

We use a catalytic gas heater, like others suggest, a bit of common sense is the way to go, we had a problem a few years ago, before we bought the 'cat' heater, and decided to use the hob to warm up............a while later, we both felt felt warm and sleepy!!!!!!!!!!! fortunately, I recognised the symptoms, opened the doors, and we went for a walk in the freezing but fresh and healthy fresh air.
So now, we have a CO alarm, and only use the 'cat' heater when awake, just use your head (!! literally !!) and if you want to wake up in the morning, don't mess with unvented gas systems.
They are very good, for us and clearly for others, they offer cost-effective, simple heating, but use common sense, don't cut corners and take only the risks you are happy to take the responsibility for.

 

[vwalan]

i like cheap .
dare say we will have a discussion about it next winter . sure to find you ,or will you hide .hee hee.
never know where we shall meet .
thats for byronic , we tend to bump into one another in winter . have done for years . we have some very interesting chats .
nice man . very friendly . but dont tell him i said that.

 

[Jay Davies]

gota say what a great forum... thanks for all your advice everyone

 

[Byronic]

windyjools is using a catalytic heater not "cutting corners" when there are better alternatives? Every gas heater has some risk in useage, the catalytic variety has a few that are overcome by the room sealed type, just down to money.
If you have to crack windows to ventilate in order to get rid of condensation, then the extra gas useage cost has to be factored in over the long term, could be quite significant.?
Mind you I've yet to find a quiet or near silent fan heater, still at least they're not loud enough to be a killer though!

 

[Jay Davies]

maybe off to B@Q tomorrow???

looks easy apart from the bracket..(looking around the house for a solution)

How to Make a Candle Heater

 

[Byronic]

With any luck Alan, enough people will read the post on "Robberies In Spain" or whatever and we'll have the bludy place to ourselves. Just need someone to start a Gas attack thread to make certain!!!

 

[vwalan]

well it seems calnegro as been fenced off earlier this spring . a few have told me about it . think alot more is going to be lost. seems that the people i know that live there are seeing more parkups fenced off every week.
but its ok portugal is so easy . perhaps we shall meet at pingo doyce yet again . have a good one .

 

[scampa]

any small heater recommendations ?

I would also recommend that for safety, you only use a room-sealed heater that is designed for enclosed spaces such as vans or motorhomes.

(Sorry, but you did ask for a SMALL heater recommendation!)

 

[Jay Davies]

I would also recommend that for safety, you only use a room-sealed heater that is designed for enclosed spaces such as vans or motorhomes.

(Sorry, but you did ask for a SMALL heater recommendation!)

:raofl:

 

[vwalan]

heres a good one 12 Volt Caravan in Mobile and Touring Caravan Parts | eBay
this should be vented in and out i believe .
anotherhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Propex-Heater-Compact-1600-Gas-Heater-Vw-Camper-Boat-Motorhome-Stove-Canal-L-k-/321123300005?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item4ac470b2a5
never seen so many propex for sale.

 

[jogguk]

You just need a thicker duvet :lol-053:

It was-5c in Malvern Hills at Easter in my old Dodge van, when in bed it's quit toasty. I do have a gas warm air heater but the noise of it starting up usually wakes me, so do not use it.

John

 

[vwalan]

easter . i was in portugal .much nicer . ha ha .

 

[scampa]

Please excuse me if this next comment is seen as boring, or "un-cool" (It's a habit that I'm trying to break!), but I felt the need to counter a couple of comments that I've seen on this thread.

Any heating or cooking apparatus that relies on burning gas, oil, or solid fuel such as wood or coal, WILL produce carbon monoxide, basically because the combustion process will gradually take the available oxygen from the atmosphere.

If you have sufficient ventilation then this oxygen will be replaced as it burns, and all will be well. If you DON'T have adequate ventilation, then the oxygen level will be reduced to a level that will not support life... that means YOUR life and anyone else in the room or compartment.

To add to this problem (and as a previous poster has said) the carbon monoxide will make you feel drowsy. You may not even realise this, and simply drift off into your FINAL sleep. Even more worrying, you may get to a stage where you DO realise that you are being poisoned, but the amount of carbon monoxide that you've absorbed will have semi-paralysed you, so you have no option other than to lay there and wait until you lose consciousness, before you die.

Yes, you can get away with it for a short time if you're very careful, don't get distracted, and sometimes are just plain lucky (I've used a gas hob myself for heat at times), but you do have to be aware of the risks and plan for them.

Now I'm as much of a critic of Health & Safety Regs as (almost) anyone, and have seen how OTT parts of H&S have gone in recent years, but when it comes to basic life-threatening safety issues such as those mentioned in this topic, then I'm afraid that anyone who tries to play down the seriousness of the hazards has obviously never had to deal with the casualties caused by carbon monoxide.

As I've said before, most (but not all) of the casualties of carbon monoxide poisoning were not expecting to die on that particular day.

(Boring mode now switched off.... Normal service resumed! ).

 

[Tbear]

Please excuse me if this next comment is seen as boring, or "un-cool" (It's a habit that I'm trying to break!), but I felt the need to counter a couple of comments that I've seen on this thread.

Any heating or cooking apparatus that relies on burning gas, oil, or solid fuel such as wood or coal, WILL produce carbon monoxide, basically because the combustion process will gradually take the available oxygen from the atmosphere.

If you have sufficient ventilation then this oxygen will be replaced as it burns, and all will be well. If you DON'T have adequate ventilation, then the oxygen level will be reduced to a level that will not support life... that means YOUR life and anyone else in the room or compartment.

To add to this problem (and as a previous poster has said) the carbon monoxide will make you feel drowsy. You may not even realise this, and simply drift off into your FINAL sleep. Even more worrying, you may get to a stage where you DO realise that you are being poisoned, but the amount of carbon monoxide that you've absorbed will have semi-paralysed you, so you have no option other than to lay there and wait until you lose consciousness, before you die.

Yes, you can get away with it for a short time if you're very careful, don't get distracted, and sometimes are just plain lucky (I've used a gas hob myself for heat at times), but you do have to be aware of the risks and plan for them.

Now I'm as much of a critic of Health & Safety Regs as (almost) anyone, and have seen how OTT parts of H&S have gone in recent years, but when it comes to basic life-threatening safety issues such as those mentioned in this topic, then I'm afraid that anyone who tries to play down the seriousness of the hazards has obviously never had to deal with the casualties caused by carbon monoxide.

As I've said before, most (but not all) of the casualties of carbon monoxide poisoning were not expecting to die on that particular day.

(Boring mode now switched off.... Normal service resumed! ).

May I just add that people trapped in a sealed environment do not die from oxygen depletion but from Carbon Dioxide Piosoning. You need to add this to the Carbon Monoxide problem. We stick with the nice warm Quilt.

Richard

 

[Tow Itch]

Any heating or cooking apparatus that relies on burning gas, oil, or solid fuel such as wood or coal, WILL produce carbon monoxide, basically because the combustion process will gradually take the available oxygen from the atmosphere

No any combustion May produce carbon monoxide. If you have enough oxygen and the burner itself is not faulty then all will be OK. However any such system can have issues or faults and we have become increasingly keen to prevent these issues resulting in the loss of life. You used to see the first heater all the time 20+ years ago. they had a warning printed on the rear saying that the room they were used in had to be at least X number of cubic feet and that there had to be at least Y inches square of ventilation. Problem is if somebody couldn't work out the rooms volume or the vent space or they weren't bothered or the vent space was closeable and "Oh Dear" you wake up dead. Look at this second heater something might not be right about it's combustion you can see the black mark near the pilot light. Likewise poor combustion and Goodnight Vienna.

Catalytic heaters tended to produce a more complete combustion and reduce the risk from flames. With all internal non seperated fires the is also the risk of nearby surfaces becoming dangerously hot or brushing past the fire with flammable clothes especially bedclothes. Access being confined makes motorhome users very vulnerable to this.
The next development was the use of oxygen depletion sensors to cause the pilot light to no longer heat the thermocouple. This doesn't save you from carbon monoxide directly but indirectly as it senses the lack of oxygen. These are used in appliances such as mobile gas heaters that many people use in their homes. It does say on the boxes though that these heaters are not to be used in bedrooms. It appears that carbon dioxide levels may be a greater worry in homes with catalytic heaters than carbon monoxide. http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr023.pdf How an oxygen depleation system works. Service Bulletin on Oxygen Depletion System

For those of you travelling to more exotic climes carbon monoxide poisoning is not just about death Chronic poisoning has a myriad of nasty results and you are more vulnerable at greater altitude as there is less oxygen to start with.

Delayed Neurologic Sequelae

There is also a risk of delayed neurologic sequelae (DNS) 3-240 days after apparent recovery of 40% of patients with significant CO exposure. DNS includes various degrees of impaired cognition, memory dysfunction, vertigo, ataxia, parkinsonism, muscle rigidity, gait disturbance, disorientation, mutism, urinary incontinence, fecal incontinence, cortical blindness, hearing loss, tinnitus, nystagmus, seizures, coma, electroencephalographic abnormalities, cerebral edema, leukoencephalopathy, diabetes insipidus and globus pallidus necrosis. These deficits may persist for a year or longer.

These are the best two pieces I've read on CO poisoning. FAQ - Technical Details on Stoves Zen Backpacking Stoves - Carbon Monoxide Hazards Not 30 second reads but good stuff.

Back to heaters. So as said earlier what I may have done and what I'd recommend to someone are two different things. A Propex might be the safest solution but they are expensive and the fan is both noisy and a drain on battery power. If you had a vacant wall area you might try a non fan Carver heater or as some VW units had a Riviera heater in the floor.
Short term a gas or paraffin lantern will keep the chill off at about 800w to 1Kw but buy a CO alarm while you think about what you might want long term.

 

[Byronic]

Degree of safety standard often comes down to how much dosh you have to spare. What I'm pointing out is that if cost is no problem then the best option is a room sealed appliance. If money is a problem then the catalytic heater should only be considered as second best. Or as has been suggested a thicker duvet may be the best choice. If I couldn't afford better I would certainly consider the catalytic option and just make sure I was aware of it's safety shortcomings.
In smaller vans it's often just not possible to find the wall space for a wall mount convector, not only that but the floor position for the inlet flue can be a problem.
Pity they don't still make the Riviera often was the only heater you could fit in some VW conversions, although they tended to rust away being exposed to road salt and the elements.

 

[Smaug]

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread (been away out of interwebby access- Woo Hoo!)

Anyway, here are some experiences for the boating fraternity (where low level ventitaltion tends to be a little damp!!)

I have an old ThermX catalytic (1973 ish) which is hot enough to burn your face off at 3 paces. It is great for a blast of heat for going to bed or getting up, provided you leave a hatch open a few inches near it to allow air to circulate/ replenish. I would NEVER leave it on all night, not even on very low.

Incidentally, boiling a kettle last thing (for a hot water bottle) or first thing (for that delicious early cup of char) soon takes the edge off a small area for getting dressed/ undressed.

For overnight I use either a winter weight sleeping bag (single mummy style are best) or in extreme conditions 2 sleeping bags. This latter has worked well with ice on the decks & inside the boat!

Heating a pottery plant pot (or a fire brick) ovr a gas hob while you get into bed will work like a mini-storage heater & hold the warmer temp a bit longer. The beauty of a hot brick (or pot) is that you can turn the gas off & then seal down as much as is possible in yer average vehicle. Don't forget that most "heater" vents in the cab will always let air in unless you can seal them.

Another trick that a pal uses is 5 x 8 hour tea lights on a metal plate that are left burning all night. I have never done this, but he hasn't died yet & I reckon a little air circulating via open cab heater vents would be adequate. This is by no means a heater, but does take the edge off the chill & adding a plant pot could make it warmer.

Best of all is to take a hot bird to bed with you, then you will sleep like a log & will both be toasty warm (especially if t emissus finds out!)

 

[vwalan]

they do say that if caught in a car in a snow storm etc .that a candle lit .is enough to keep you alive .
in survival kits it does many things . light ,cook on . plus you can eat it if you really must .
always keep a couple in your vehicle as an emergency aid .
might need it in may if this weather keeps up .

 

[landyrubbertramp]

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread (been away out of interwebby access- Woo Hoo!)

Anyway, here are some experiences for the boating fraternity (where low level ventitaltion tends to be a little damp!!)

I have an old ThermX catalytic (1973 ish) which is hot enough to burn your face off at 3 paces. It is great for a blast of heat for going to bed or getting up, provided you leave a hatch open a few inches near it to allow air to circulate/ replenish. I would NEVER leave it on all night, not even on very low.

Incidentally, boiling a kettle last thing (for a hot water bottle) or first thing (for that delicious early cup of char) soon takes the edge off a small area for getting dressed/ undressed.

For overnight I use either a winter weight sleeping bag (single mummy style are best) or in extreme conditions 2 sleeping bags. This latter has worked well with ice on the decks & inside the boat!

Heating a pottery plant pot (or a fire brick) ovr a gas hob while you get into bed will work like a mini-storage heater & hold the warmer temp a bit longer. The beauty of a hot brick (or pot) is that you can turn the gas off & then seal down as much as is possible in yer average vehicle. Don't forget that most "heater" vents in the cab will always let air in unless you can seal them.

Another trick that a pal uses is 5 x 8 hour tea lights on a metal plate that are left burning all night. I have never done this, but he hasn't died yet & I reckon a little air circulating via open cab heater vents would be adequate. This is by no means a heater, but does take the edge off the chill & adding a plant pot could make it warmer.

Best of all is to take a hot bird to bed with you, then you will sleep like a log & will both be toasty warm (especially if t emissus finds out!)

Best of all is to take a hot bird to bed with you, then you will sleep like a log & will both be toasty warm. will a kfc doo lol