Angus POIs overnight stays banned.

[barge1914]

At the 3 POIs in Glen Clova ‘Strictly no overnight stays’ signs have materialised: on them they state they are provided by Angus Council and refer to Angus Council Management Rules. The sign at the one by the bridge has for the time being acquired legs and wandered away leaving a bare pole. Does anyone know anything about the status of or background to these?

The signs format and content bare little relationship to proper statutory signs in their wording or in the detail provided. ie: vague words ‘overnight’ and ‘stay’, no specific time periods, no reference to statute, TRO, or byelaw, no details of enforcement or penalties?

 

[barge1914]

Perhaps this has something to do with it?…..

Road Traffic Act 1991
Parking offences were decriminalised under the Road Traffic Act 1991. This enables local authorities to establish Special Parking Areas (SPAs). Within these areas, the local authority (or their representatives) can charge for and enforce all non-endorsable parking restrictions. The whole of Angus will be designated as a SPA and Angus Council will thereafter have responsibility for on-street parking controls and their enforcement across most roads within the county.

However does this relieve them from providing signage compliant with road traffic acts?

 

[Tonybvi]

My own personal view is that if we’re not wanted somewhere then we’re not wanted and I will not stay, irrespective as to whether the sign is legal or not.

 

[jagmanx]

De-regulation rules ok (no not ok)

 

[barge1914]

My own personal view is that if we’re not wanted somewhere then we’re not wanted and I will not stay, irrespective as to whether the sign is legal or not.

Likewise, and I didn’t, but it is nevertheless a matter of concern. Management does not necessarily mean saying where we should not park, but also designating suitable alternatives. To get a TRO in place councils are required to show they have considered alternatives. Scotgov does not hasten to approve TROs that selectively prohibit motorhomes, which explains perhaps why some Councils resort to other dodges to properly address catering for the increase in motorhomes. Some Councils have tried misusing PSBOs, albeit when confronted they have shown some reticence about enforcement. But if and when they do use such measures it would be good to be assured they comply with the letter of the law and not just put up signs to frighten the horses.

 

[alcam]

My own personal view is that if we’re not wanted somewhere then we’re not wanted and I will not stay, irrespective as to whether the sign is legal or not.

Understand why you are saying that and does appear to be the default setting on here .
I do wonder if you were going to the doc , for example , and there was an illegal no parking sign would you obey it ?

 

[kernewek]

Angus Council lease the car parks from Airlie Estates. There have been NOP signs for years, but they 'disappeared'. Overnights were pretty much tolerated until... the carnage last year. The estate asked AC to reinstate the signs as the debris and mess left behind from overnights was disgusting. The bottom sign was recently 'removed' and placed behind the bin. AC have retrieved it and are in the process of reinstalling it. The grammar could do with a bit of work though...

 

[Fisherman]

Angus Council lease the car parks from Airlie Estates. There have been NOP signs for years, but they 'disappeared'. Overnights were pretty much tolerated until... the carnage last year. The estate asked AC to reinstate the signs as the debris and mess left behind from overnights was disgusting. The bottom sign was recently 'removed' and placed behind the bin. AC have retrieved it and are in the process of reinstalling it. The grammar could do with a bit of work though...

Was the mess left our doing, or as I witnessed last year primarily those in tents.

 

[kernewek]

Was the mess left our doing, or as I witnessed last year primarily those in tents.

An estate car with a caravan

 

[maureenandtom]

My own personal view is that if we’re not wanted somewhere then we’re not wanted and I will not stay, irrespective as to whether the sign is legal or not.

Genuine question.

If your neighbour – like this one – didn't like your motohome to be parked on your own drive, and put up a notice saying so. Would you park your motorhome elsewhere:

Or is it your view that some signs are just too illegal to comply with?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...planning-permission-park-motorhome-drive.html

Seems that this guy is going the wrong way about solving his motorhome problem. Just put a sign up.

 

[maureenandtom]

An estate car with a caravan

Then deal with the estate car with a caravan. I'm innnocent.

 

[Fisherman]

Genuine question.

If your neighbour – like this one – didn't like your motohome to be parked on your own drive, and put up a notice saying so. Would you park your motorhome elsewhere:

Or is it your view that some signs are just too illegal to comply with?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...planning-permission-park-motorhome-drive.html

Seems that this guy is going the wrong way about solving his motorhome problem. Just put a sign up.

I would like to add to your excellent post.
Where are we really wanted in very few places.
To me at best we are only tolerated in this country of ours.
Scotland is possibly the most welcoming, but even up here we are mainly only tolerated.

 

[Tonybvi]

Genuine question.

If your neighbour – like this one – didn't like your motohome to be parked on your own drive, and put up a notice saying so. Would you park your motorhome elsewhere:

Or is it your view that some signs are just too illegal to comply with?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...planning-permission-park-motorhome-drive.html

Seems that this guy is going the wrong way about solving his motorhome problem. Just put a sign up.

Before I bought my first motorhome a long while back I told my neighbours and showed them where I was planning to park it beside my garage. I asked them if they would mind. Neither of them objected but if they had I would not have parked the van there. I still occasionally check with the neighbours (same ones after all this time) that it’s still ok with them. Again if either of them objected I would move the van somewhere less convenient for me.
I reckon that if a neighbour has to put a sign up rather than talking to you things have already got to a pretty sorry state.

 

[Fisherman]

Before I bought my first motorhome a long while back I told my neighbours and showed them where I was planning to park it beside my garage. I asked them if they would mind. Neither of them objected but if they had I would not have parked the van there. I still occasionally check with the neighbours (same ones after all this time) that it’s still ok with them. Again if either of them objected I would move the van somewhere less convenient for me.
I reckon that if a neighbour has to put a sign up rather than talking to you things have already got to a pretty sorry state.

Our missives state no towed vehicles or commercial vehicles, yet we have several commercial vehicles parked in our street, and most are not parked on their drives, but on the road. There is one caravan parked up on their drive. There are two and three car families who only have single driveways. Would I complain about this, absolutely not. Our next van will be a van conversion, no larger than the commercial vans already parked up. Our current van in a 6m A class, which is parked on one side of our driveway. My car is parked in my garage, with one side of my drive empty. Personally if it’s parked on my drive I see no need to ask permission of anyone, but I have seen mohos parked up for long periods on the road, I would not do this.

 

[Robmac]

I have 2 campers, 3 cars and a work van parked on my drive.

There is nothing in our deeds stating that I cannot do this so the way I see it is that it is nothing to do with the neighbours. Thankfully we get on well with our neighbours and neither of them has raised any sort of objections to this.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Our missives state no towed vehicles or commercial vehicles, yet we have several commercial vehicles parked in our street, and most are not parked on their drives, but on the road. There is one caravan parked up on their drive. There are two and three car families who only have single driveways. Would I complain about this, absolutely not. Our next van will be a van conversion, no larger than the commercial vans already parked up. Our current van in a 6m A class, which is parked on one side of our driveway. My car is parked in my garage, with one side of my drive empty. Personally if it’s parked on my drive I see no need to ask permission of anyone, but I have seen mohos parked up for long periods on the road, I would not do this.

Doesn't that very much depend on what sort of road they're parked on?

And even then, if they are parked legally (i.e. the vehicle is road legal - taxed, tested, insured) and cause no obstruction or danger to anyone, why would you be bothered? Again, no different to any other legally parked vehicle, whether short or long term, imo.

Some people don't have the benefit of off-street parking, does this mean they shouldn't own a camper if they have to park it on the road?

 

[Fisherman]

Doesn't that very much depend on what sort of road they're parked on?

And even then, if they are parked legally (i.e. the vehicle is road legal - taxed, tested, insured) and cause no obstruction or danger to anyone, why would you be bothered? Again, no different to any other legally parked vehicle, whether short or long term, imo.

Some people don't have the benefit of off-street parking, does this mean they shouldn't own a camper if they have to park it on the road?

I was referring to my street, where I live, and it would cause annoyance to others. For me it’s no different to parking outside someone’s home when wild camping, something I would always try to avoid even for one night, never mind for weeks on end without moving the van.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Like I said, depends on the type of road.

There's an old motorhome parked up somewhere near the banks of the Tyne on an industrial estate.
Also another one parked near a large wholesalers in the same area.

They are obviously lived in and have each been parked up there there for several years now.
Both are actually 'off road', as it were.

One is parked on quite a large pavement area that sees little, if any, passing footfall, and the other is parked in a lay-by which isn't frequented much (or even needed) by other vehicles.

 

[Fisherman]

Like I said, depends on the type of road.

There's an old motorhome parked up somewhere near the banks of the Tyne on an industrial estate.
Also another one parked near a large wholesalers in the same area.

They are obviously lived in and have each been parked up there there for several years now.
Both are actually 'off road', as it were.

One is parked on quite a large pavement area that sees little, if any, passing footfall, and the other is parked in a lay-by which isn't frequented much (or even needed) by other vehicles.

Just to add Marie, when I say I would not park outside my home, I was not meaning to be judgemental of others. Obviously that is for each individual to decide, and would depend on how their Neighbours reacted. It’s bad enough being treated as a nuisance when out and about, without being treated likewise whilst at home.

 

[maingate]

I believe that all vehicles parked on the road are parked illegally.

Unless the Law has changed, a vehicle has to have its offside sidelights illuminated during the hours of darkness. Do new vehicles still have that facility provided by makers?