Alternator upgrade to help charge habitation batteries?

[Nabsim]

I know some do but I wouldn’t run an alternator to charge Lifepo4 battery’s, do it properly and fit a B2B so it gets proper controlled charge. Unless you can get a lot of tilting solar on your van it’s as much use as a chocolate fireguard in winter in the U.K. if you aren’t going on sites far better to get a small generator and just use it to top the battery’s up with a mains charger every couple of days.

Edit: while the B2B will charge while the engine is running I would have to run it over 2 hours every day. My generator uses less fuel and is quieter than my van engine plus it will probably run cleaner for the green folks.

 

[trevskoda]

Thanks to you all for the good advice. I will have a look at the solar controller (hopefully being sorted out in February) and see if I can have the alternator charge the batteries directly. Again, thank you all.

Alt voltage is not for lipo, it must go through a unit set up for higher voltage and smart charge & mantenance cycle, ok with the votronic doing the solar.

 

[Nabsim]

Alt voltage is not for lipo, it must go through a unit set up for higher voltage and smart charge & mantenance cycle, ok with the votronic doing the solar.

I use the Votronic 30amp B2B as well Trev. About the same size as the MPPT and has given excellent service to date. While I do have some Victron stuff I think a lot of it is just too bulky for mobile use. I know I am in the minority on that one though

 

[trevskoda]

I use the Votronic 30amp B2B as well Trev. About the same size as the MPPT and has given excellent service to date. While I do have some Victron stuff I think a lot of it is just too bulky for mobile use. I know I am in the minority on that one though

Na its good stuff votronic, you did the right thing fitting it, mine has never gave problems.

 

[Canalsman]

Another vote for fitting a battery to battery charger (B2B).

This will make a huge difference and allow your lithium battery to be charged at a rate that is limited only by the B2B specification. A typical rate is 40-45 amps.

 

[mistericeman]

I know some do but I wouldn’t run an alternator to charge Lifepo4 battery’s, do it properly and fit a B2B so it gets proper controlled charge. Unless you can get a lot of tilting solar on your van it’s as much use as a chocolate fireguard in winter in the U.K. if you aren’t going on sites far better to get a small generator and just use it to top the battery’s up with a mains charger every couple of days.

THIS ^^^^^

 

[Malcdhill]

Thanks all. I feel happier now I have a way forward, and I have also ditched the alternator project !!
This has been a real education, thanks to all for your support.

 

[KCjjj]

I agree with Nabsim. A B2B charger is the way to go! It will charge the batteries a lot quicker, and 240 watts of solar power to charge the 2x105 lithium is poor.
If it was my van, I would also increase the solar power with a good MPPT controller.

 

[trevskoda]

I agree with Nabsim. A B2B charger is the way to go! It will charge the batteries a lot quicker, and 240 watts of solar power to charge the 2x105 lithium is poor.
If it was my van, I would also increase the solar power with a good MPPT controller.

200w of solar charges my stoneage l acids which i have 2 of 90ah.

 

[merl]

I am looking for a bit of advice from anyone who has upgraded their alternator on a Fiat 2.3 engine. We have two Lithium 105 habitation batteries as standard.
We are looking at touring the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, mostly off grid. We have 2 x 120 solar panels, but found last year stopping 5 days in Traigh in spring (heavily Leaden sky’s and rain) we ran out of power. Running the van’s engine for half an hour regularly (so not to annoy other people) it didn’t put any charge in the batteries. I spoke to my friendly local garage who explained that a standard alternator is big enough to charge the drive battery whilst driving, but standard factory fitted doesn’t have enough surplus to charge the habitation battery quickly as it was never part of the original vehicle specification (in fairness he didn’t look at the the current alternator, this was just a conversation). He believed that the current alternator would be around 90Amp - 120Amp (ish)?? The suggestion was a far larger alternator which would give better (faster) charging of both the engine and habitation batteries when traveling.
The question is has anyone tried this and has it been effective? If so, what size did you upgrade to for this engine size. Thank you.

As previously suggested by others a B2B charger is what's needed.
Although 'faster charge speeds' are quoted for lifepo4 batteries that only becomes possible if the charging circuitry is up to the job, furthermore if you drop a lithium battery into a standard MH setup that uses a standard split charge process like yours then the lithium battery will actually charge considerably slower than a lead acid. This is due to lifepo4 batteries sitting at a higher voltage whilst being charged, the alternator's voltage is fixed so there's less potential difference and hence less current.
Check the maximum recommended charge rate for your batteries and then double that figure (because you have 2 in parallel) and don't exceed that amount with the output current of the B2B. ie a 60A B2B will give you 30A to each battery.
Exactly how much charge current you're getting at the moment depends on the cable lengths and gauge used between the cab and hab batteries but it's possibly less than 10A right now and pretty dire as you've experienced. You'll notice a massive difference with the B2B.

 

[Chasn]

I have a Sterling 1260 B2B. The best that I can get from it is about 42A. Also don't underestimate the cooling required by Sterling B2Bs. They have an internal fan but no external heatsink. This proved insufficient at these charge rates. It's remote indicator showed the temp rising to 80degC and charging cutting out even with average temps in the vicinity of the B2B. I then fitted extra fans (combination of axial and centrifugal in series) and ducting taking air from outside. The duct was 40mm waste pipe which was connected to the air inlet to the B2B. This greatly increased the airflow and since then there has been no issues with temp.

 

[merl]

I have a Sterling 1260 B2B. The best that I can get from it is about 42A. Also don't underestimate the cooling required by Sterling B2Bs. They have an internal fan but no external heatsink. This proved insufficient at these charge rates. It's remote indicator showed the temp rising to 80degC and charging cutting out even with average temps in the vicinity of the B2B. I then fitted extra fans (combination of axial and centrifugal in series) and ducting taking air from outside. The duct was 40mm waste pipe which was connected to the air inlet to the B2B. This greatly increased the airflow and since then there has been no issues with temp.

I had to do a similar thing with my Nord Elettronica mains charger. It broke down twice basically due to overheating. It was rated at 20A but it got hot because 1, there was no cooling fan and 2 the fuse wiring and PCB tracks weren't up to the job and got hot. I fixed it and modified it with a 12v computer fan that comes on at 45 degrees and is now fine,, so much so that I've been able to tweak it's current up to 25A. Newer Nord chargers also have a fan as standard.
Chargers can generate quite a bit of heat and of course that needs to be got rid of, no good enclosing a charger in a small unvented area, cupboard etc because the air temperature will just build and build and cooling efficiency drops, so another reason to choose your installer carefully.
As current gets higher it becomes harder and more expensive to design and build chargers that are super efficient so that they don't need forced air (fan) cooling, it can be done but you'll usually pay a premium. Although obviously noisy, fans simply work out cheaper.

 

[yeoblade]

The alternator blew on my 2.3 fiat, so I replaced it with a higher amp 140a was 90a. Then I fitted a Renogy 30A B2B 50A available + Solar box of it bits. Best upgrade done to keep the batteries topped up through winter



https://uk.renogy.com/dcc30s-12v-30...85GbEEobuO1JIsZeKyoKeCxKFJzdOQ3BoC7PAQAvD_BwE

 

[Canalsman]

I have a Sterling 1260 B2B. The best that I can get from it is about 42A. Also don't underestimate the cooling required by Sterling B2Bs. They have an internal fan but no external heatsink. This proved insufficient at these charge rates. It's remote indicator showed the temp rising to 80degC and charging cutting out even with average temps in the vicinity of the B2B. I then fitted extra fans (combination of axial and centrifugal in series) and ducting taking air from outside. The duct was 40mm waste pipe which was connected to the air inlet to the B2B. This greatly increased the airflow and since then there has been no issues with temp.

I have the same B2B and likewise get a maximum of 42 amps output.

I spoke to Sterling about this and they fudged the answer by stating that the theoretical output is 60 amps but after allowing for conversion losses, cabling losses etc the real world figure is significantly lower. As we have both found.

Thus far, and I've been using the B2B for quite a few years, and touching wood... I've not had any overheating issues.

 

[Chasn]

I have the same B2B and likewise get a maximum of 42 amps output.

I spoke to Sterling about this and they fudged the answer by stating that the theoretical output is 60 amps but after allowing for conversion losses, cabling losses etc the real world figure is significantly lower. As we have both found.

Thus far, and I've been using the B2B for quite a few years, and touching wood... I've not had any overheating issues.

Fudging is the word as my cable is as large as their terminals will accept and the distance between the two batteries is less than one metre.
The area for the electrics in my Carthago is close to the habitation battery within a large underfloor but insulated area. The ambient rarely rises above 15-20degC so that shouldn't have been an issue. I think that part of the problem with the Sterling B2B is that it is in a plastic case and totally relies on its fairly weak internal fan. If I was doing it again I would use a pair of 30A Victron units. When trying to blast external cooling air down a relatively small inlet aperture I found that a small centrifugal fan gave more flow than a computer axial fan.

 

[Robmac]

I have a Sterling 1260 B2B. The best that I can get from it is about 42A. Also don't underestimate the cooling required by Sterling B2Bs. They have an internal fan but no external heatsink. This proved insufficient at these charge rates. It's remote indicator showed the temp rising to 80degC and charging cutting out even with average temps in the vicinity of the B2B. I then fitted extra fans (combination of axial and centrifugal in series) and ducting taking air from outside. The duct was 40mm waste pipe which was connected to the air inlet to the B2B. This greatly increased the airflow and since then there has been no issues with temp.

Would one (or more) of these act as an external heat sync?

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I'm not technical enough to have a clue whether they would, but just a thought.

 

[JQB]

I am looking for a bit of advice from anyone who has upgraded their alternator on a Fiat 2.3 engine. We have two Lithium 105 habitation batteries as standard.
We are looking at touring the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, mostly off grid. We have 2 x 120 solar panels, but found last year stopping 5 days in Traigh in spring (heavily Leaden sky’s and rain) we ran out of power. Running the van’s engine for half an hour regularly (so not to annoy other people) it didn’t put any charge in the batteries. I spoke to my friendly local garage who explained that a standard alternator is big enough to charge the drive battery whilst driving, but standard factory fitted doesn’t have enough surplus to charge the habitation battery quickly as it was never part of the original vehicle specification (in fairness he didn’t look at the the current alternator, this was just a conversation). He believed that the current alternator would be around 90Amp - 120Amp (ish)?? The suggestion was a far larger alternator which would give better (faster) charging of both the engine and habitation batteries when traveling.
The question is has anyone tried this and has it been effective? If so, what size did you upgrade to for this engine size. Thank you.

Alternator upgrade not needed, a BtoB charger with correct setting for lithium sorts it. But, running the engine does not charge the batteries,? Something not right there, if our bats are low running the engine on tickovet for 30/45 mins helps a lot, and we don't even have a BtoB either.
Ours is a 2014 ducato 2.3. Solarwise, an MPPT is better at sending more juice to the bats i read. Don't stay in one place so long particulatly if freecamping, not a good policy, and maybe the issue will go away but the alternatet not charging the bats needs sorting first.

 

[trevskoda]

Alternator upgrade not needed, a BtoB charger with correct setting for lithium sorts it. But, running the engine does not charge the batteries,? Something not right there, if our bats are low running the engine on tickovet for 30/45 mins helps a lot, and we don't even have a BtoB either.
Ours is a 2014 ducato 2.3. Solarwise, an MPPT is better at sending more juice to the bats i read. Don't stay in one place so long particulatly if freecamping, not a good policy, and maybe the issue will go away but the alternatet not charging the bats needs sorting first.

Very very bad to let an engine idle to long, it glasses the bores and will become a smoker, anyway the alt must be spinning a bit harder to produce high amps, almost nothing at tickover.

 

[Canalsman]

Very very bad to let an engine idle to long, it glasses the bores and will become a smoker, anyway the alt must be spinning a bit harder to produce high amps, almost nothing at tickover.

Not sure about low output at idle.

That was the case in the early days of alternator usage but the introduction of overspeed gearing to the alternator sorted that out.

My Ducato at idle produces the full 42 Amps from the B2B.

 

[trevskoda]

Not sure about low output at idle.

That was the case in the early days of alternator usage but the introduction of overspeed gearing to the alternator sorted that out.

My Ducato at idle produces the full 42 Amps from the B2B.

Lucky sod, my old steam driven iveco dont put out much amps at idle, take her to 1200 rpm and all is ok.
Turn lights on and watch what revs they brighten at, we used to do a test like this to check and also see if light flickers which was down to duff rectifier diodes/regulator fault.