aires in uk

[Deleted member 775]

i have just been looking through some of the posts in the other thead on here but not wanting to post any response that may not be relevent to that thread i have made another .sometimes its not the councils we are fighting but the residents of that council area ,bridgend and porthcall has been mentiond a few times the way i see it is bridgend council have no problems with overnighting motorhomes as we have stayed overnight ona few occasions on the swimming pool carpark ,and as for overnighting in porthcall some vans still do .what we are up against are the so called retired blue rinse brigade that want to ban every enjoyable pastime there ,for instance there is a oldish guy that rides up and down in a electric buggy he playes music they want to ban him .the elvis weekend that gives pleasure to thousands they are trying to ban that they also want to get rid of the fair ground there too , yes i will agree there have been problem motor homers there basicaly the drunks that buy a van and think they can park up drink all day and then sleep it off at the side of the road they do want banning the main offenders are still there but parked up down a side street on a private car park sometimes it not the councils we are up againt but the residents of that area and if the councils do not move us on or give an outright ban on vans the locals in that area seem to egg the young boy racers to annoy us that much that they drive us away

 

[John H]

I have to agree with everything you say - In the past when organising events, I have had to deal with the vociferous and selfish minority who shout so loud that nervous councillors with an eye to the next election convince themselves that they ought to be seen to be doing something. In France, Spain and many other European countries they don't seem to have the same problem - if there is a festival then the whole village turns out (often until dawn) and if a motorhome turns up, the occupants are encouraged to join in the fun. Where do these almost exclusively English killjoys come from? If somebody knows, tell me and I'll go round there and burn down the factory that manufactures them!

 

[Deleted member 775]

i dont know what it is that causes some people to want to stop and be able to stop a certain other group from enjoing themselfs providing its legal that is .but that seems to be the pastime of the brits. the french spanish and italians are more live and let live type of people .having never been abroad i cannot realy comment on how motorhomers are welcomed or not , but i feel that if our european conterparts especialy the french were told you cannot park here or you cannot park there i have a feeling that they would tell the person who wants to stop them to take a long walk in short jerky movements mabey we aught to rebell against the jobsworths and those who want to stop us from enjoing ourselves, and then just mabey we may get our overnights stops. after all some motorhomers that i know are sick and tired of been told no you cannot do this you cannot persue your rights to stay a night somwhare we like they are ignoring the no overnighting notices and no one is preventing them from parking i think i mentioned the ramblers a few years ago they were prevented from walking on land that some high and mighty land owner said was his land and after many so calld rebelians there was a mass tresspas and look what they have now freedom to roam its about time we motorhomers stopped acting like good law abiding folk and let the authorities see that what we are doing is neither anti social nor damaging to and mabey we will get our stop overs we have a right to. i for one are with a growing group of motorhomers and others that want to enjoy freedom our vans afford us in ignoring the no overnight notices that are sprouting up all over, and in my opinion no one realy wants to enforce .this may not be aggreable to some with vans, and i understand some will never go against those notices and some may say what i am saying is wrong , but it may be a way for our rights to have a place to stop to be noticed .

 

[maureenandtom]

To a great extent we are our own worst enemies. Somehow we have grown to be over-cautious to what we see as authority. We're frightened of them. Don't park here or they'll put up a height barrier and we won't be able to park here. So there's a difference?

Sometimes we do their work for them. One of us steps out of line and we're “spoiling things for the rest of us” and we put moral pressure on him to comply. We never seem to think that maybe the one stepping out of line isn't spoiling things for the rest of us; maybe the one stepping out of line is making things better for the rest of us. When I stepped out of line an offence of “cooking, camping, sleeping” disappeared and yet some would say I risked making things worse for the rest of us. Some did say it. It hurt.

“Them” is local authorities.

I have enough difficulty obeying unfair rules if I see them as unfair or if I see no good reason for them. When I see rules which I think, because I can't know for sure, are not only unreasonable but also a fabrication with no legal validity then I can see a good point of view which says we have a duty to defy it. Not only a right but a duty.

Right to Roamers. They had to put up with violence from landowners when they obtained what we now see as our right. The suffragettes weren't easily given what they wanted. You think Magna Carta was given freely? And yet I am not asking to be given freedoms. I want only that my freedoms should not be taken from me.

 

[Tbear]

i have just been looking through some of the posts in the other thead on here but not wanting to post any response that may not be relevent to that thread i have made another .sometimes its not the councils we are fighting but the residents of that council area ,bridgend and porthcall has been mentiond a few times the way i see it is bridgend council have no problems with overnighting motorhomes as we have stayed overnight ona few occasions on the swimming pool carpark ,and as for overnighting in porthcall some vans still do .what we are up against are the so called retired blue rinse brigade that want to ban every enjoyable pastime there ,for instance there is a oldish guy that rides up and down in a electric buggy he playes music they want to ban him .the elvis weekend that gives pleasure to thousands they are trying to ban that they also want to get rid of the fair ground there too , yes i will agree there have been problem motor homers there basicaly the drunks that buy a van and think they can park up drink all day and then sleep it off at the side of the road they do want banning the main offenders are still there but parked up down a side street on a private car park sometimes it not the councils we are up againt but the residents of that area and if the councils do not move us on or give an outright ban on vans the locals in that area seem to egg the young boy racers to annoy us that much that they drive us away

Mandrake
Your comments are more positive and relevant to my original post than some. In my original email to the council I stressed that poor marketing may be a disaster.

 

[Deleted member 775]

i agree as you say if there is a sighn saying you cannot do a thing, i.e cooking sleeping and camping if we obay then it is lost .if we disobey and no one stops us then we have won . if a carpark states no ovenighting ,and someone parks and after that a barrier goes up its not that persons fault as the car park was lost anyway but if we have not tried then all is lost. i doubt that local authorities have the staff or the cash to put a hight barrier up on every car park . when you come to look at it we are even discriminated with our insurance how many motorhome owners are told they cannot commute in there vans why ? but back to the overnight parking ,if asking for our human rights to be recognised are not listend to,then we need to make our human rights be recognised, the trouble with the british is they accept they never question .

 

[Deleted member 3802]

ok never took part in these debates and this is my personal purely selfish reasons i wildcamp /site dodge nearly every weekend have done for years we have a system that works for us we stay where it feels right signs or no signs we park up late move out early it's where we get parked in the day that matters to us,when you guys talk about getting the councils to legalize places i see it has a big stick to hit pp's like me,this is the widcampin forum not mh/facts or fun?
if these places were set up do you think you would get parked on them? where ever we go there are hundreds of vans on sites because of the signs keep the signs and keep them vans on the sites
told yer a right selfish ba$tard aint i

 

[John H]

While enthusiastically agreeing with the general theme of the comments above, I feel the need to make a couple of points:

1. Maureen and Tom - I wouldn't bother to invoke Magna Carta because it does not say what many people think it says. The whole purpose of Magna Carta was to shift power from the King to the Barons - as far as the common man was concerned it just meant that the person who was oppressing him was now someone else.

2. Mandrake - your suggestion that the British accept and never question certainly applies to the Civil Service who take every rule that comes out of Europe (irrespective of which political party is nominally in power) and try to see how they can make it more oppressive (other countries just nod and shelve the bloody rules - and if you doubt this try walking round the average French market which is supposedly subject to the same EU rules as the UK). However, it does not unfortunately apply to those bloody killjoys who think that they can stop the rest of us enjoying our legitimate freedoms. If only they "accepted"! By the way, Mandrake, I think you would enjoy France - please give it a try sometime.

 

[Deleted member 775]

well first of all old arthur ,you are like me never use a camp site and never will ,as you say if a council provided an area for us to park then i suppose they could stop wild camping as you put it i dont think that is what i am realy asking for (thats why i dident post this in the original thread about aires) i.e a site specialy for vans what i realy want and most others would aggree is freedom to park legaly anyware we chose within reason. i know we all use council carparks but we have risk somone knocking at 2am saying you cannot park here usualy the police .and the latest thing a 50 pound fine for staying the night dont know how they will enforce the fine as someone from the council has to issue the ticket i asume but would it not be nice to know there are no bariers and no, no overniting notices ........ now john .h yes as you say the government or shall i say those in power civil sevice whatever you want to call them, if they want to accept whatever europe want to throw at them so be it i doubt there will ever be anything we can do about that other than a compleate breakdown of law and order by us common people taking to the streets and rebeling ,that is not what i am on about what i am talking about is our rights to overnight within reason ,i dont think a eu directive has ever come out of brussels stopping us from parking our vans .in fact it may be to our advantage if one did we may get the same rights as our counterparts in europe. i hope what i am going to say wont offend, but as i have noticed in some of your other posts you seem to use a lot of so called legal jargon and i dont think most on here understand or are realy bothered about it please keep it under standable thanks graham

 

[Deleted member 775]

Mandrake
Your comments are more positive and relevant to my original post than some. In my original email to the council I stressed that poor marketing may be a disaster.

thanks i havent realy read you original post fully (my loss mabey) and dident realy want to post somethig irelevent .i will have to take time to read it fully cheers

 

[John H]

Sorry if I have used too much "legal jargon" but, in my defence, if you want to win a point - especially against those in authority - you have to make your case as watertight as possible - and that may mean using language that we wouldn't use if we were chatting over a pint. And you are right - no ruling has ever come out of Europe (or anywhere else as far as I am aware) that prevents overnighting. Enjoy life and don't let the buggers grind you down!

 

[Deleted member 3802]

we do and like i say it works for us but every weekend we see vans parked in no no places i don't mean illegal places i mean silly places that upset the natives letting water run out,parking there to long ect these thing causes all our trouble and gives locals that big stick

 

[Deleted member 775]

cheers john h as you say legal jargon is needed if a legal challenge was ever mounted to defend our rights in court ,and may i say you seem well qualified to mount one, if one was needed. yes this is a talk as if we were out having a pint so all oppinions are welcome , not only is it the overnight parking that need addressing other things need to be looked at like the majority of insurance companies will not allow you to use a motor home for commuting , and the signes that state motorhomes are not allowed to park after a certain time when other veihcles are allowed to as per porthcall literaly stopping someone with only a van being forced to stop fishing after a certain time, and as per another thread banning motor homes being parked outside your own residence, but one fight at a time as they say if you win one battle then the rest of the war seems a lot easier .

 

[AndyC]

ok never took part in these debates and this is my personal purely selfish reasons i wildcamp /site dodge nearly every weekend have done for years we have a system that works for us we stay where it feels right signs or no signs we park up late move out early it's where we get parked in the day that matters to us,when you guys talk about getting the councils to legalize places i see it has a big stick to hit pp's like me,this is the widcampin forum not mh/facts or fun?
if these places were set up do you think you would get parked on them? where ever we go there are hundreds of vans on sites because of the signs keep the signs and keep them vans on the sites
told yer a right selfish ba$tard aint i

I don't think that having officially sanctioned 'non-campsite' places for motorhomes to stop overnight will have any effect on responsible wild campers, particularly those like Old Arthur who arrive late and leave early.

They will however be a boon to people like us who want to be able to stay overnight legally close to the place we want to be. They will enable us to enjoy local ameneties without worrying whether we are going to be moved on in the middle of the night or going to get a fine for being in the wrong place.

Powys seem to have it right, which is why we go there as often as we do. It's great that we can park virtually in the middle of Brecon, Hay-on-Wye, Machynlleth, etc and walk into town for some shopping during the day, and a drink or two in the evening, without being concerned about having to get back to a campsite that may be miles away and which charges us for facilities that we don't need.

Having 'aires' in the UK won't stop us wild camping from time to time, nor will it stop us from using campsites or CL/CS sites when we need to. I see them as a sort of half-way house between regulated sites and unregulated wild camping, giving motorhome users a bit more choice about where we can stay.

AndyC

 

[John H]

I'm not used to posting on threads where I agree with everybody - maybe I need to go and lie down for a bit!

Good luck to all wherever you choose to stop for the night.

 

[maureenandtom]

. . . Having 'aires' in the UK won't stop us wild camping from time to time, . . .

AndyC

No, it won't. But it has put into words a little niggle I've had in the back of my mind for quite a long time.

It won't stop us wild-camping but it might be a small deterrent in that it gives officialdom another reason to move us on - “Now look. You wanted Aires and we've provided one just a few miles over there. Now move along, please.”

That might lead to a booking system. The French Aire at Balaruc near Sete had a council run booking system two years ago. Not sure if it was in use this year. I was there in February and there were only a few vans using it. But in July and August? If the council ban parking elsewhere and it's full?

That might lead to people getting a parking place and then being reluctant to move in case they lose their spot, yes? That already happens all over the place. Somebody going shopping so they put a traffic cone in “their” place or put out their table and chairs to show “their” place is occupied.

The council will then want to regulate it. And because we like rules, we will want them to regualte it. Then they will want to charge administrative fees. Then they will want to make a decent profit from it. Then it will be a campsite.

Not everything about proposed English Aires is good.

 

[John H]

Good point - but surely the local authority already has the incentive to move us on if they wish (and if the law backs them up) because there are campsites in the local area. If "aires" are going to be charged for then, as you point out, they are to all intents and purposes campsites. Only if there are free aires could they present an argument that would be difficult to counter. I don't object to people trying to get aires that are charged for - I won't be using them but each to their own and I can't really see that it will per se reduce the ability to wildcamp. Unless their are specific reasons for doing so, I never use aires that charge (and the concept of a booking system really does go against the grain!).

By the way, I've found something I can strongly disagree with - "because we all like rules". But you only said that as a wind-up, didn't you? Happy travels.

 

[Deleted member 3802]

the thing about aires free or charged is it's a site by another name and every council and all natives to that area are sh!t frittened of travellers and that argument will be used every time behind closed doors at council meetings

p.s. the only good thing i could use them for is to empty the thunder box and not feel embarrassed

 

[AndyC]

No, it won't. But it has put into words a little niggle I've had in the back of my mind for quite a long time.

It won't stop us wild-camping but it might be a small deterrent in that it gives officialdom another reason to move us on - “Now look. You wanted Aires and we've provided one just a few miles over there. Now move along, please.”

'Officialdom' already has the power to do this, many (most?) wild campers are not affected because most of the time 'officialdom' doesn't know they are there. I agree however that the establishment of a local 'aire' might be used as a excuse to clamp down on 'wild campers' who behave unreasonably.

That might lead to a booking system. The French Aire at Balaruc near Sete had a council run booking system two years ago. Not sure if it was in use this year. I was there in February and there were only a few vans using it. But in July and August? If the council ban parking elsewhere and it's full?

That might lead to people getting a parking place and then being reluctant to move in case they lose their spot, yes? That already happens all over the place. Somebody going shopping so they put a traffic cone in “their” place or put out their table and chairs to show “their” place is occupied.

It's true that this might happen in some places but I would envisage most UK 'aires' operating in the same way that car parks do, I can't imagine anyone trying to reserve a place in a public car park would get away with it for long.

The council will then want to regulate it. And because we like rules, we will want them to regualte it. Then they will want to charge administrative fees. Then they will want to make a decent profit from it. Then it will be a campsite.

Of course they will need to be regulated, in exactly the same way that car parks are regulated, to prevent people abusing the facility. Personally I don't object to a fair charge being made, but I know others do. Fair enough, they don't have to use it.

AndyC

 

[Deleted member 3802]

I have no objection to paying ? to be where i want to be it's usally about £6 a day to park up but to then leave there and go and park on someone's field for 8hrs in the dark and pay for the privelage no way.
drive past a site mr motorhome parked up on levelling blocks awning out, windbreaker round, table and chairs set up ok sound but why not have a caravan and a nice car and a lump in the bank why a motorhome that dunt motor