Aires in the UK

[maureenandtom]

Provoked by the reaction to the proposed Aires (or dedicated parking places for motorhomes to satisfy the pedants) in both Blackpool and Scarborough, I want to find out just what is our attitude to the provision of Aires in the UK.

Here's the book I've bought every year since around 2000 – the earliest I still have is 2002 and this might have been the first I bought. But I bought it every year and looked for it every year. In 2002 the book listed 1230 Aires. By 2010 (the last I bought) the book listed 2500 Aires. The growth in Aires is incredible – doubled in 8 years. I can provide similar figures for Italy. I have no doubt that in a few years I will be able to show similar growth in Spain and Portugal. Germany I don't know about.

In common with most people I thought this was a good thing; a wonderful thing; a marvellous thing; something we should emulate in Britain. If only we had forward thinking councils here. What is this British disease which prevents us doing the same? The fantastic growth rate in France must prove that providing Aires is good for everybody. Not just us – everybody. There are a few exceptions but there was pretty full agreement. We should provide Aires.

Blackpool (ok, I know, to satisfy the pedants, it is strictly Fylde not Blackpool) received pretty well a universal acclamation from we motorhomers for their initiative in proposing an Aire and opening it a couple of weeks ago.

Then we got details of a fee and the acclamation turned to disdain.

Scarborough has now decided to begin a year's trial of an Aire (pedants keep quiet please) and there has hardly been a word of praise for their initiative. Did they make a mistake in telling us in their proposal that there would be a charge?

Are we truly the freeloaders who want something for nothing? We want the French experience but we want it for free.

We are a wildcamping site so I can understand those who will stick to wilding no matter what the councils do. But, if you are one of these, do you also refuse to use French Aires? Is there a whiff of hypocrisy there? Make no mistake; not all municipal French Aires are free and it seems to me that previously free ones are increasingly making a charge. I can make a list of the ones I use year after year but I don't need to because we all know that this is so.

We resent being called Freeloaders. But are we? Do we want Aires but only if the council provide them free? Will you pay a fee in France but not in the UK? Why?

Do you think we have enough freedoms anyway if we confront officialdom and demand respect for our freedom to park wherever we want? I'm speaking as one who has tried, and been successful at, confrontation. (Strictly speaking, I didn't confront – I successfully appealed. God protect me from pedants.) I got a bit of stick when I reported that.

I'm asking for a lively debate on the possible provision of Aires in the UK – don't hold back - and I'm asking only to increase my knowledge base and understanding.

 

[vwalan]

hi, i only use free airres and will move on to another one if the free ones i know have put a charge on.
i have a 99 le monde airres book i think they are the best ones .
but back on track .i want free airres in uk.
it can be done . if they wanted to . or just a few spaces in normal carparks . many in france are just that.
hope that helps . i try to be honest .

 

[John H]

Hi

My view is that all new provisions for us in the UK are to be welcomed - if only because they demonstrate a slight shift in attitude of the authorities. My beef is not that some of these "aires" are charging for overnighting but with the sums of money involved. For example, I cannot see an "aire" being successful if it charges £10 for a parking space when the CL down the road charges £8 for an overnight stay plus water plus waste disposal plus electric hook-up. In France, nearly all the aires we use are free and those that charge tend to charge only 3 or 4 euros for the services and nothing for parking. I know there are more expensive ones but we don't use them because there are lots of alternatives. I also know that the UK will not turn into France overnight and that the attitude of the great British public is less favourable to us than in France. We are on a very long road to get anywhere near the French system and, in my view, will not get there in my lifetime, but at least there are signs we are moving, if at a very slow pace, in the general direction.

 

[vwalan]

hi only a 1000 in 1999. this book as had a good hammering over the years . i tend to come back to using this book as others i have had dont give the same memories of good times . strange that feeling.

 

[antiquesam]

Surely it is worth paying for the benefits of parking within walking distance of the town occasionally. I accept that £10 is a lot but if you use a CL outside of town at £8 you pay £2+ in fuel.

 

[sss]

Free is always nice, however someone has to pay in the long run.

I do think that there is a place for 'paid' aires in the UK. This would fill that gap between wild camping and CL's. However they have to be priced right to fill that gap.

I do think that it is an uphill battle though. I recently stayed at the Canterbury one and for me that fills the gap. The price was also reasonable especially with the bus ride into town.

As we have an under used lorry park in town, I put that to my local council (East Herts - Parking manager = Andrew.Pulham@eastherts.gov.uk). Even promoting the benefits of increased income to the council, businesses and tourism, he was not interested in the least. I even had the feeling that he only replied because he has to.

We do need more in the UK, the more people that stay and visit the UK means more money in our economy and that is certainly needed. I think the more we get in the UK and provided they are not abused we can slowly increase the number around.

That then leads to how do we get local authorities to listen and create aires?

 

[fishy & Nina]

An interesting debate - Aires in Uk would be great, but as stated above the charges are over the top at the moment. Hopefully, if they get used a lot things will change - especially if people contact the councils concerned with positive comments and maybe a few subtle suggestions.............. Everyone still has a choice though - use them or don't use them!

A few years ago, whilst having a long lunch with some French friends in Brittany (also Camping Car owners), they mentioned that one of the reasons for the system of Aires being set up was the pressure put on government by one of the big Camping Car organisations. Not wanting to lose votes from this large body of people (a bit like the French farmers) they did something about it. If I remember correctly, and the wine may have influenced my memory, towns of a certain size / populus are obliged to set up an Aire in their community.

IMHO a great idea, but you will never see the Anti-Aire people at The Caravan Club getting behind anything like that...............

Even if Aires don't happen here, it would be nice to see the system in parts of Sweden adopted where you pull into some layby's abd they are set up for motorhomers with facilities for water and cassette emptying - having said that, they would probably need to be in motorway services where there is some security from vandals - thus defeating the object for most of us.

It's all very difficult, perhaps letters to MP's via the internet could put some pressure on..................

Happy travelling
ian

 

[Teutone]

wouldn't have a problem to pay £3-5 per night. But for a tenner I expect 24hrs of parking!
Wouldn't mind if there is a small fee for water, electric or waste disposal. At least you can decide if you want to use it or not.

 

[Ozbird]

Ozbird

Here's my tuppence worth.......
1) what a lot of people are forgetting is that France has more space than the U.K, but half the population.
2) In the U.K EVERY SQUARE INCH OF LAND MUST BE PROFITABLE/TAXABLE, so must every person..............
and 3), although not relevant, an honest days work no longer gets an honest days pay........... so no, we won't get any 'aires' but we are already forbidden to exercise our right to roam unless we pay thru the nose for it. You can get done for having less than a fiver in your pocket.....checkout the vagrancy act....

 

[Firefox]

It's fine providing them, but they have to be competitive.

Fylde Council recently opened it's "motorhome parking." £5 a night for a strip of tarmac in a noisy car park with no facilities not even water. When you add in day time parking it was £12 for 24 hours for no facilities.

This is not worth having and not in any way competitive. They should preferably be free but if charges are to be made they should compete with CL's at least. £5-8 for 24 hours with water, disposal and EHU thrown in or on a coin meter.

 

[barryd]

At first I thought campaining for Aires a good thing but then having seen what Fylde and Scarborough councils are doing Im not so sure. Its not only the fact that they are overcharging and there is no way I would pay £10 for parking and nothing else but they seem to be using it as a way of banning parking in other areas where we have always enjoyed free and safe parking. Fairhaven Lake at Lytham being an example. Now Fylde have provided motorhome parking up goes the no overnighting signs everywhere else including the lake. The council have openly admited that now they have provided parking it allows them to enfource the no parking / overnighting in other places (including the lake). So all we have gained is a less attractive car park that now costs more.

The difference in France of course apart from most of the Aires being free is if you choose not to stay on one its perfectly legal unless otherwise stated to park overnight where you like providing you dont put out camping equipment. Ok so France is bigger so there are less people per square mile than the UK but there are also many many more motorhomes on the roads than the UK. They dont seem to have any issues with them though.

Yes we should have Aires but not at £10 a pop and not if it means loosing other well used spots. Personally Im not fussed. Id rather use a CL and use the bike.

 

[Canalsman]

... but they seem to be using it as a way of banning parking in other areas where we have always enjoyed free and safe parking. Fairhaven Lake at Lytham being an example. Now Fylde have provided motorhome parking up goes the no overnighting signs everywhere else including the lake. The council have openly admited that now they have provided parking it allows them to enfource the no parking / overnighting in other places (including the lake).

Is that now in force?

 

[nij]

I would use one, even if they were not free but a nominal charge (£2 kinda thing), any more than that then id be back to wilding.
As a wilder, I put money into the area I stay in (always go to local pubs and shops - NEVER a big chain tho).

 

[barryd]

Is that now in force?

Im sure I saw a thread somewhere where someone had taken a photo of the sign but I cant find it now. Cant remember which forum it was either. And I saw a council comment pretty much saying what I said above.

 

[AndyC]

You think £10/night is too expensive?

I've just heard that the overnight charge at West Beach, Hayling Island is to be increased from the originally published rates of £8 a night from September to May inclusive and £10 a night from June to August inclusive to £10 a night from November to February and £20 a night from 1st March to 31st October. This follows representations to the council from a couple of local campsites....

I'm greatly in favour of local councils making provision for motorhomes to stay overnight, but not at these sort of prices. The intention of several councils in setting up these schemes is to satisfy an existing demand and at the same time alleviate the problem of inappropriate overnight parking of motorhomes. Setting too high a charge will just mean that the facility is under used and the problem remains, or visitors who might otherwise have stayed and spent a bit of money go somewhere else.

So what is a reasonable charge for overnight parking? I guess it depends on the location to some extent. Powys manage to provide it for free (for one night in 7), personally I would only be prepared to pay as much as £10 if it was a very convenient location that I was interested in visiting, and I would expect that to cover at least 15 hours, preferably 24.

AndyC

 

[Firefox]

Yes, I think these so called nighttime use of council car-park "aires" are just going to be used as another cash cow. Motorhomers will be ripped-off for using them, and it will give the council an excuse to enforce parking bans elsewhere. We'd be left like sardines in noisy, unattractive, costly surroundings while the council rakes in the dosh and slaps yellow lines/residents only everywhere else.

People campaigning for aires should take a very careful look at what type of aire they are going to be getting and what the implications are for other parking in the area.

 

[Skar]

I only go to France really, usually stay at free aires but am also happy to pay. The big difference in France is that if you pay any sizeable sum (6 euro + ?) you can be almost certain that the Aire is in a superb position! Either with fantastic views,centrally located or with other major benefits.

From what I can see of the efforts (lol?) in Scarborough and Blackpool rip off Britain wants more money for absolutely nothing of quality.

I just bought a new multitrip ticket with Eurotunnel, good luck with trying to sort out the UK!

 

[fishy & Nina]

Like our local council who have doubled the carpark charges now saying there going to be a shortfall in revenue ?????
Who wants to visit a poxy hick town with nothng to offer unless it is free ?
You only have to look now the car parks are half empty !

Same thing is happening here in Cornwall - they are even talking about people buying permits to park in the centre of town! All thet we see at the moment is the shop owners parking in the few 'free' spaces and complaining that no-one is shopping in the town - now I'm no Einstein but.................

 

[John H]

Surely it is worth paying for the benefits of parking within walking distance of the town occasionally. I accept that £10 is a lot but if you use a CL outside of town at £8 you pay £2+ in fuel.

Yes, but the CL will provide water and electric hook up for that price - and if you are as old as me you get free bus fares into town!


.....and in answer to sss, no-one else would be using the car parks overnight and so there is no cost involved to the local authority - yet at the same time the town will have more visitors (in motorhomes) and therefore almost certainly more income. It is this simple fact that the French grasped a long time ago but the Brits seem to ignore. For a nation of shopkeepers we are not very businesslike!

....and to fishy and Nina, yes the French motorhome lobby is far more powerful than ours (at times it seems like everyone in France has a motorhome) which helps to explain the difference in attitude. I agree with you about the backward thinking Caravan Club (which puts excessive profit above its members despite the fact that it is supposed to be a members organisation rather than a profit-making business!) and it is a sad fact that until the UK has the same ownership levels as France then there are more votes here in opposing us than supporting us.

Its not so much about size (after all, Scotland and many parts of England are no more populous than much of France); it is about attitude.

 

[barryd]

You think £10/night is too expensive?

I've just heard that the overnight charge at West Beach, Hayling Island is to be increased from the originally published rates of £8 a night from September to May inclusive and £10 a night from June to August inclusive to £10 a night from November to February and £20 a night from 1st March to 31st October. This follows representations to the council from a couple of local campsites....

I'm greatly in favour of local councils making provision for motorhomes to stay overnight, but not at these sort of prices. The intention of several councils in setting up these schemes is to satisfy an existing demand and at the same time alleviate the problem of inappropriate overnight parking of motorhomes. Setting too high a charge will just mean that the facility is under used and the problem remains, or visitors who might otherwise have stayed and spent a bit of money go somewhere else.

So what is a reasonable charge for overnight parking? I guess it depends on the location to some extent. Powys manage to provide it for free (for one night in 7), personally I would only be prepared to pay as much as £10 if it was a very convenient location that I was interested in visiting, and I would expect that to cover at least 15 hours, preferably 24.

AndyC

Thats just bonkers! There is a brilliant and lovely CL on Hayling that we stayed at a couple of years ago with hookup for £6.50!

It does depend where it is. The scrappy car park Aire at Mont St Michel is I think or was €10 but its an internationally recognised attraction and I think the most visited after the Eifel tower!

For a place like Hayling or Lytham I would say a fiver tops was about right. Personally I would rather wild for free away from the town or use a CL.