Air ride suspension

[vwalan]

no fine . you can bring back as much duty paid as you want .just dont sell it. dont forget the cheap beer and spirits from spain . still think you need more payload ,hee hee. takes us days to get loaded for home . several trolley loads . hope it all goes good for you .let us know how you get on at dvla.

 

[Byronic]

I understood the fine as being for having an overloaded rear axle. Presumably because there would'nt be enough space to put all the booze over the front axle?

 

[vwalan]

hi, yes i read it after and thought oh well looks like i got it wrong .but left it on . makes a story . only a week to go. hee hee cheers alan.

 

[Byronic]

hi, yes i read it after and thought oh well looks like i got it wrong .but left it on . makes a story . only a week to go. hee hee cheers alan.

Alan, do I get a hint that you'll be glad to get away from the computer? I used to leave the laptop behind when heading South, but now I've become reliant on it as a pass timer.
Don't think I'd bother with the laptop' or the TV if I was on 3 week summer holiday touring new places, but invaluable (together with book reading) for bad weather days on extended winter trips. There's only so many hours of board games I can take.
*****, obviously the weight advantage in your case outweighs the disadvantages of venturing into HGV territory, just remember when you spot what appears to be a weight check on the road ahead, to apply the brakes sharpish to shift the load to the forward end!

 

[AndyC]

Can anybody think of any down side for been plated at 4100kg
I know about the speed limits, toll charges, go box, possible recovery problems, newer drivers restriction, weight limits in villages and car parks etc.medical at 70
I just can't see any reason why not to do it and road tax is cheaper.

You've covered most of it, although the UK speed restrictions start at 3050kg unladen and you might be over that already!
One thing, you say that the Hymer plate has the gross weight at 3900kg? It's my understanding that a converters plate overrides the base vehicle manufacturers plate so it would seem that you could be affected by the 'over 3500kg' regulations already...

AndyC

 

[vwalan]

hi, fortunately for you all i use a big old clumsy desk top computer .dont have a lap top. so next week i shall say see you later aligater. cant find the need to have a computer when away . lifes too busy then. dont need any poi or parking places by sat nav. never had a problem finding somewhere to stay. like asking locals where to get this and that .its all part of the fun. once i get on the boat every thing goes into a different pace of life . so many places to go ,see, do. sit quiet on the boat as i can get sea sick . stay calm get ready for the adventure to start. but i will be back god willing, inshallah.
must brush my arabic up bislemmah. cheers alan.

 

[Byronic]

*****, for what it's worth the formula is a universal mechanical one sic.
"The sum of the anti clockwise moments must equal the sum of the clockwise moments for equilibrium".
1 tonne + seems like a very reasonable payload I should think most vanners could carry every vital for an extended trip.
I think Alans approach to vanning to be the ideal ie what it really is about.I've tended to stray away from the ideal and tend more and more to rely on peripherals as it were.

 

[AndyC]

No Andy the vehicle is registered at 3500kg and the registration weight takes president. Soon it will be 4100kg
The converters plate would take president if it had been registered and taxed at that rate.

Are you absolutely sure that's right? The 'Revenue Weight' as entered on the V5C is defined as: "confirmed maximum weight", determined by the Plating and Testing Regulations (i.e. vehicles subject to plating and testing) or, "design weight" for vehicles not subject to plating and testing. Motorhomes are not subject to plating so it seems to me that your Hymer plate indicates a "design weight" of 3900kg and therefore the revenue weight of 3500kg recorded on your V5C is incorrect.

AndyC

 

[vwalan]

hi ,***** is right .it would heither have been a mistake or a voluntary down plate at registering. very common . it could easily have been up lifted at anytime . but its the log book that is the paper bit. the other plates can be stickers scratches into paint work all a load of crap ,but what weight is on the log book is the weight you are taxed according to it and its that weight vosa would use. the higher plate should be took off or marked in a way to show its been superceded .

 

[Tco]

Having just caught up with the thread after a couple of ays absence, I thought I would just toss another little pebble into the pond. All this talk about extending the MGW to over 4000kg brings up another aspect which could be forgotten. Don't forget the tyres in all this.

In my application I elected to increase the rear axle loading to 2000kg. The van was fitted with 215/70-15 tyres which had a load rating of 109 =1030kg. I was uncomfortable with such a low margin so sought out some tyres with a load rating of 112 = 1120kg. This gave me a much wider safety margin.
Remembering that the chassis mods Could have allowed a GVW of 3810 which would have put the existing tyres right on their load limit.

If you have any enthusiasm to increase the rear axle loading, just keep an eye on the tyre ratings.

see.Tyre Load Rating | Blackcircles.com

 

[AndyC]

hi ,***** is right .it would heither have been a mistake or a voluntary down plate at registering. very common . it could easily have been up lifted at anytime . but its the log book that is the paper bit. the other plates can be stickers scratches into paint work all a load of crap ,but what weight is on the log book is the weight you are taxed according to it and its that weight vosa would use. the higher plate should be took off or marked in a way to show its been superceded .

It's my understanding (from a VOSA inspector) that they take account of the VIN or converters plate when carrying out vehicle checks. Certainly DLVA will take account of the declared gross weight (on the V5C) when determining road tax. I agree that to avoid confusion the Hymer plate should be removed or re-marked to indicate the maximum weight as declared on the V5C if that is the maximum weight at which the vehicle will be operated.

It's a bit academic as far as Graham is concerned since he is going to upgrade anyway However I'm going to follow this up just to clarify which takes precedence, the VIN plate, converter's plate or the V5C.

I've already posed a 'difficult' question to the DfT regarding MTPLM upgrades on Type Approved motorhomes, another one will keep them busy for a while

AndyC

 

[AndyC]

Thanks Alan, I was sure that I was, but Andy put a little doubt in my mind as he is usually well informed.

I think Alan is sort of agreeing that having the Hymer plate at 3900kg does cause confusion

Out of interest do you know what your unladen weight is, and what is the gross weight on the Fiat VIN plate?

AndyC

 

[lebesset]

with regard to tyre carrying capacity ETRTO design parameters permit an increased load capacity of 10% ...providing there is no drive or steering on the axle ; traction forces or steering inputs can easily use up that extra capacity

so if you have a FWD vehicle the fitting of tyres with a marked load capacity of 1030Kg on a 2000Kg axle will be safe up to 2266Kg , a more than adequate margin

I don't suggest you try running at that load however , VOSA would not be amused

in addition the wheels fitted will not be optimised for wider tyres and so will reduce their effectiveness even if the fitment is possible ; in addition , on most motorhomes , the front tyres are running well under their rated capacity already ...fitting wider tyres usually causes what is referred to as an overtyre characteristic , which means that the vehicle is inclined to 'tramline' ...not a desirable characteristic

better , in my view , to leave these decisions to the tyre/wheel/vehicle manufacturers

 

[AndyC]

I think that Alan said that the revenue weight is what matters.
Fiat Vin is as stated 3500gross.
I have not got the exact unladen but from memory it was around the 3000kg
I have just looked at the tech spec for the year of my Hymer and the Mass Running Order is / was 3040kg and nett weight is 2860kg.
Payload is 460kg at 3500kg or 810kg at 3850kg (Maxi) although my Hymer plate states 3900kg

As I understand it Mass in Running Order (MIRO) is unladen weight plus 75kg allowance for the driver, plus 90% of the max fuel capacity. I think the nett weight quoted by Hymer is probably the unladen weight.
Your original unladen weight is below 3050kg so to determine which speed limits you have to comply with you just need to add the weight of any permanently fitted extras such as the Airrides, awning, bike rack etc to your unladen weight to see whether you are over 3050kg or not

AndyC

 

[vwalan]

this is where it can get confusing .is a cmper a goods carrying vehicle if it is its unladen weight below 3050kg makes it a motor car. if it not goods carrying then it must not exceed 2540 kg to be a motor car. is it a motor car or a heavy motor car. that is the question. cheers alan.
or is it a m,home ...hee heee.

 

[AndyC]

this is where it can get confusing .is a cmper a goods carrying vehicle if it is its unladen weight below 3050kg makes it a motor car. if it not goods carrying then it must not exceed 2540 kg to be a motor car. is it a motor car or a heavy motor car. that is the question. cheers alan.
or is it a m,home ...hee heee.

It better not be a goods carrying vehicle 'cos they need a Class 7 MOT if between 3000kg and 3500kg gross weight and an HGV MOT if over 3500kg! No to mention driver's hours and tacho regs...

It's a shambles really - it's about time all this vehicle classification business was rationalised!

AndyC

 

[vwalan]

ah but all m,caravans regardless of weight are class 4 . mot. we must not confuse the issues . each one as diferent rules . used private dont need drivers hours or tacho.s . even up to 7,5ton .but yes a total revue and new laws need to be set .and we try to get a law for m,homes only parking . difficult as that can be classed as discrimination . a m,home is a car . be it light or heavy . may even be a tall/high car. bit like swimming in a bog . all good fun though . cheers alan.

 

[vwalan]

whats the back axle problem. its my belief just about every 3,500kg camper is overloaded when it goes on a trip. even more if coming back from abroad . best done then you dont get a fine. cheers alan.

 

[Byronic]

Apart from the anomaly of VED being £40 less when changing from LGV to HGV, I found that changing from Commercial HGV to Motor Caravan HGV meant I then had to have front seat belts fitted, very strange. As Alan says, all good fun!!!
Another fairly strange requirement if memory serves me well is the Highway Code where vehicles with an UNLADEN weight of 1525 kg or under can park unlit at night on a road of 30 mph or less. If you're over 1525 then it's parking lights on everywhre so that includes most Motorcaravans.

 

[lebesset]

perhaps that's why in plymouth they have car parks where you can't park any vehicle over 1525 Kg unladen weight
that way you can't get your vehicle off the street overnight and they can fine you if you park without lights so you can start it in the morning

or am I missing something here