Advice Please

[barnybg]

power and less use.

80 to 120 w Solar panel via solar regulator ,plus another 110 amp battery,should do the trick,even the other battery as a big improvement(in line of course)
Learn to use on board equipment sparingly..

 

[oddjob]

So if it takes around 11 hours to recharge 1 110ah battery from flat and maybe around 24 hours to recharge 2 110ah battery's on EHU,
Would it be fair to say before i go down the road of solar panels,generators,powerful alternators,and even switching off the fridge and buying ice ???.
The way forward would be to buy another 110ah battery whilst the existing one is reasonably new spend 2 comfortable nights maybe 3 with plenty of leccy wild-camping and 1 night on a site hooked up to recharge the battery's, empty tanks refill water etc.
oddjob

 

[sparxy]

Sounds good to me

 

[oddjob]

Sounds good to me

Good ,so more advice please ,do the battery's have to be of the same size,i.e both 110ah?,the reason i ask is i only have room for 1 in the out side sealed compartment,and was thinking of putting 1 under the habitation seat close to the existing battery ,
Also the new battery would not have to be acid type (fumes etc )so is it possible to mix acid and sealed battery's together (gel type)?
oddjob

 

[wildtime]

Wildcamping & Battery Management

We only wildcamp (and in wintertime) and depend on 2 banks of 12v Leisure Batteries to run all our on-board power requirements including our KvH Trackvision Dome Satellite system, LCD TV & Sky+ Box as well as a DVD Player and a Freeview Box. I also use a Laptop PC. The Sky+ Box and the DVD & Freeview units and my Laptop are all supplied by an Inverter.

To ensure that our basic power needs are never compromised by the entertainment equipment I had a separate bank of 2 x 12v 120Ah Lead Acid Leisure Batteries fitted in a spare exterior locker and a Sterling 50A Battery to Battery Charger to charge these from the vehicle's (120A) alternator.

Our lighting, pump, cooker ignition, extractor fan, central heating circulation fan are all supplied by the existing 2 x 90Ah Leisure Batteries which the on-board Sargent EC225 Power Control unit charges - from mains when at home and from the vehicle's alternator when driving.

I learned that the on-board vehicle alternator, although of more than enough capacity at 120A, unfortunately is governed by the vehicle's starter battery and that as soon as that battery shows a high enough voltage to the alternator (having been recharged sometime after start-up) then to prevent overcharging the alternator's regulator switches to trickle charge which is useless for charging the Leisure Batteries.

The ideal solution would be fit a separate alternator (a major task for most vehicles and owners) which would only charge the Leisure Batteries. The easier (and does not interfere with vehicle warranties) is the Sterling B2B route - which is widely used on sea-going boats as well as now increasingly on motorhomes. The use of cheaper Lead Acid Batteries is because they fare better with fast high amperage charging and in fact the B2B helps to de-sulphinate them (a common cause of battery failure). The B2B and extra battery system described above would cost you about £500-£600 with all cables (50Amp and therefore hefty and costly), clips, cable channel/conduit, battery boxes, fuses (both ends), output terminals, battery clamps if done yourself or add 6+ man hours @ £40/hr to have it doe professionally.

We recently spent 10 days without any mains power whilst wildcamping in Ireland and never ran out of power. I did occasionally run the engine for 20 minutes or so just in case - to top up the batteries - before the evening drew in. The Sterling devotes the first 2.5mins to topping-up the starter battery before then switching to charging the Leisure Batteries (the 2 new ones in our case) at up to 50 Amps. The on-board Sargent ECU only delivers up to 5 Amps I believe to each of the two existing Leisure Batteries - which would be fairly useless - if we did not have our high power-hungry equipment connected to our separate B2B & 2x120Ah Battery system.

Rowlands Marine, Pwllheli are a brilliant and experienced supplier and installer if you want it all done for you (including the KvH Sat system). That's who fitted us out and with a no-nonsense let's fit the best and most economical friendly service - totally reliable and honest.

James

 

[oddjob]

Thanks James

We only wildcamp (and in wintertime) and depend on 2 banks of 12v Leisure Batteries to run all our on-board power requirements including our KvH Trackvision Dome Satellite system, LCD TV & Sky+ Box as well as a DVD Player and a Freeview Box. I also use a Laptop PC. The Sky+ Box and the DVD & Freeview units and my Laptop are all supplied by an Inverter.

To ensure that our basic power needs are never compromised by the entertainment equipment I had a separate bank of 2 x 12v 120Ah Lead Acid Leisure Batteries fitted in a spare exterior locker and a Sterling 50A Battery to Battery Charger to charge these from the vehicle's (120A) alternator.

Our lighting, pump, cooker ignition, extractor fan, central heating circulation fan are all supplied by the existing 2 x 90Ah Leisure Batteries which the on-board Sargent EC225 Power Control unit charges - from mains when at home and from the vehicle's alternator when driving.

I learned that the on-board vehicle alternator, although of more than enough capacity at 120A, unfortunately is governed by the vehicle's starter battery and that as soon as that battery shows a high enough voltage to the alternator (having been recharged sometime after start-up) then to prevent overcharging the alternator's regulator switches to trickle charge which is useless for charging the Leisure Batteries.

The ideal solution would be fit a separate alternator (a major task for most vehicles and owners) which would only charge the Leisure Batteries. The easier (and does not interfere with vehicle warranties) is the Sterling B2B route - which is widely used on sea-going boats as well as now increasingly on motorhomes. The use of cheaper Lead Acid Batteries is because they fare better with fast high amperage charging and in fact the B2B helps to de-sulphinate them (a common cause of battery failure). The B2B and extra battery system described above would cost you about £500-£600 with all cables (50Amp and therefore hefty and costly), clips, cable channel/conduit, battery boxes, fuses (both ends), output terminals, battery clamps if done yourself or add 6+ man hours @ £40/hr to have it doe professionally.

We recently spent 10 days without any mains power whilst wildcamping in Ireland and never ran out of power. I did occasionally run the engine for 20 minutes or so just in case - to top up the batteries - before the evening drew in. The Sterling devotes the first 2.5mins to topping-up the starter battery before then switching to charging the Leisure Batteries (the 2 new ones in our case) at up to 50 Amps. The on-board Sargent ECU only delivers up to 5 Amps I believe to each of the two existing Leisure Batteries - which would be fairly useless - if we did not have our high power-hungry equipment connected to our separate B2B & 2x120Ah Battery system.

Rowlands Marine, Pwllheli are a brilliant and experienced supplier and installer if you want it all done for you (including the KvH Sat system). That's who fitted us out and with a no-nonsense let's fit the best and most economical friendly service - totally reliable and honest.

James

Not quite what i am looking for but it may come in useful in the future,distant future,
Just after a simple fix for weekends away and a couple of holidays a year,unfortunately i still work and will be doing so for a few more years yet ,so your set up is not quite my needs.but very impressive
oddjob

 

[barnybg]

Batteries/power/solar ?

I park up for 2 weeks at a time,and with my 90 w Solar panel and two 110 batteries,haven't had a problem as yet,but i dont have loads of equipment on for hours at a time AND i'm in full sun at the moment for 12 hours a day !
Work out what you want to use and how long you can efficiently use it and manage your power,if you want loads on,then the option is to 'plug in' or buy extra batteries and run inline, two are usually adequate but maybe another for back up ?
Check what stuff you want to run and how much juice they take X hours use,just like your elecric kettle in the house,they burn up electric,so use gas when you can.12 v equipment is a good option too,use one light instead of all,use mpump sparingly,remember you are away from electric not in the house,so learn to be frugal !
If you dont want to spend out ,then start with just another same size battery ,wired inline with existing one,i had to put my extra one ,under the seating next to the existing locker,making sure it cant move about or touch metal etc,as for fumes ?????haven't noticed nothing and have had it like this since beginning of Spring.

 

[robjmckinney]

?

"I learned that the on-board vehicle alternator, although of more than enough capacity at 120A, unfortunately is governed by the vehicle's starter battery and that as soon as that battery shows a high enough voltage to the alternator (having been recharged sometime after start-up) then to prevent overcharging the alternator's regulator switches to trickle charge which is useless for charging the Leisure Batteries."

Very interesting point but how does it work and what about night using lights and heater. I been out of vehicle electrics for some years so this must be a modern inclusion on on certain posh vehicles. The alternator regulates its output on the size of the load, never heard of such a device fitted. As an ex military vehicle electrician many armoured vehicles have eight or ten 100 amp batteries all charged of a basic alternator, a big one but still basic.

 

[sparxy]

My understanding is that the alternator puts out as much current as is required so when the starting battery is charged and there is a leisure battery or fridge in the circuit demanding power then it supplies it.

 

[vwalan]

its all about resistance. on a normal relay type dual charge it lets you start on the engine battery then as the alternator starts up brings in the leisure battery (batteries).so in theory they all count in the resistance stakes . if you have a 3 stage charging system it allows the engine battery to get up to full charge then swaps the charge to the liesure bank. if both get full it goes into float charge .but still most alternators only put out a big charge for a short time as the resistance soon builds up and statrs to shut off the charge gradually till it just ticks away.

 

[maingate]

I suppose it depends on the motorhome manufacturer as to how the charging is spread about.

Mine is German and has the Elektroblok 99 fitted. When the engine is started, the leisure batteries get 18 amps and the engine battery gets a float charge only. The fridge will get whatever it needs.

If the leisure batteries have been run down, the ammeter goes past 18 amps at first. This could be a false reading though. Not all instruments are accurate on motorhomes.

 

[wildtime]

Alternator Regulator

"I learned that the on-board vehicle alternator, although of more than enough capacity at 120A, unfortunately is governed by the vehicle's starter battery and that as soon as that battery shows a high enough voltage to the alternator (having been recharged sometime after start-up) then to prevent overcharging the alternator's regulator switches to trickle charge which is useless for charging the Leisure Batteries."

Very interesting point but how does it work and what about night using lights and heater. I been out of vehicle electrics for some years so this must be a modern inclusion on on certain posh vehicles. The alternator regulates its output on the size of the load, never heard of such a device fitted. As an ex military vehicle electrician many armoured vehicles have eight or ten 100 amp batteries all charged of a basic alternator, a big one but still basic.

Rob - like you I have a technical background and when I first heard about the B2B Charger and how it works I didn't believe it. A friend who is still hands-on and experienced in solving battery charging problems on fishing boats (for which he has built many a manual version of the B2B by altering the alternator's regulator so that the user can manually control the rate of charge using a rheostat) confirmed that it works - and that the problem of the regulator responding to the state of the Starter Motor Battery and going into trickle charge is a very real one. Sterling describe their B2B Charger as "fooling the alternator" into believing that the starter battery was not yet fully charged by "dragging-down" the terminal voltage of that battery - so causing the alternator to continue pushing out a high charge. Then the B2B regulates that output to the Leisure Batteries whilst monitoring their charge state. It is a 4 stage charger and so it can achieve full charge - where a basic charger wouldn't. It also ensures that the Starter Battery is kept charged by switching for a part of every 1/2 hour(I think) to topping-up the Starter Battery. Regarding powering the vehicles lights I guess that as these come off the vehicle's electrical system (as opposed to the habitation/Leisure Battery system) they appear to the alternator as a load that requires supply and so are not restricted by trickle charge (but that is my surmise). In contrast the habitation and Leisure Battery system is not "seen" by the vehicle alternator as a load that the alternator regulator should respond to - because the on-board ECU/Charger system isolates the Leisure/habitation end from the alternator. Hence that system has to depend on the residue of what is available from the alternator (eg. trickle charge) once the Starter Battery has been satisfied.

James

 

[Don]

Battery should never be allowed to drop below 12 volt

 

[wildtime]

Good ,so more advice please ,do the battery's have to be of the same size,i.e both 110ah?,the reason i ask is i only have room for 1 in the out side sealed compartment,and was thinking of putting 1 under the habitation seat close to the existing battery ,
Also the new battery would not have to be acid type (fumes etc )so is it possible to mix acid and sealed battery's together (gel type)?
oddjob

I understand that you should match batteries by capacity, age and type (eg. Lead Acid or Gel) and not mix them.

Also, it is essential that any battery located within (or that can emit fumes into) the habitation compartment must be a non-gassing type - which I believe are sealed Gel types. My previous Hymer had one of these located underneath the passenger seat and the charger was set to charge a Gel as opposed to a Lead Acid battery. Unfortunately when that one died just over a year after I bought the vehicle from new I had to pay nearly 3 times the price of a sealed Lead Acid type - which I couldn't use due to the "gassing" issue. I think it is Hydrogen Gas that is emitted when charging batteries and of course that is a potentially very explosive situation - which is why they have to be housed outside the habitation compartment and vented externally.

One last thing - if adding an extra battery to your existing one - as well as matching it for age, type and capacity you should connect it in "parallel" with the existing one (that is + post to + post and negative post to negative post). Of course if your on-board charger/ECU has more than one charging output line (mine has 2) then you just need to connect to the second of those.

James

 

[oddjob]

Anybody

Good ,so more advice please ,do the battery's have to be of the same size,i.e both 110ah?,the reason i ask is i only have room for 1 in the out side sealed compartment,and was thinking of putting 1 under the habitation seat close to the existing battery ,
Also the new battery would not have to be acid type (fumes etc )so is it possible to mix acid and sealed battery's together (gel type)?
oddjob

oddjob