A20 sidcup Bypass fine...what have I done wrong?

Wanderer015 said:
Everyone is missing the major point !! Marcel was driving a Petrol engined van, which is NOT subject to the LEZ, Low emmission zone !! you can drive Any Petrol engined vehicle into London, maybe not so in a few more years time though
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Thank you. There are even more points:

Point 2) By reading their site carefully, I will also get the same fine for not registering my van in advance (so the TFL knows it is 'clean' and prevent them from sending me a fine). It's a very high penalty for just not carefully reading their website. There are lower fines for much worse delicts. How fast would I have do drive to get the same fine for speeding?

Point 3) TFL does not send the penalties to adresses abroad. They hand the bills over to a collecting company which sends them, also charging for their 'services' which cost more than the fine itself. So the first-14-day-charge turns into 420£, which is is an incredible amount for doing nothing.

Regards, Marcel (still fuming)
 
Well said Marcel.

It amazes me just how supine we seem to have become here in the U.K. when it comes to issues of this type.

Cheers

H
 
id be tempted to ignore it.... costs for a collection company trying to collect abroad will be higher than the fine so they will send a few theatening letters then probably drop it.


or you could reply to the first one giving the "name and address" of the person who borrowed the vehicle for their holiday. then any further letters respond with a threat to take them to court for harrassment ... they wont want the hassle of an action in a european court.


also id research the legality of tfl requiring all foreign vehicles to be registered in case they stray into london especially if theyre exempt from charging.. perhaps a facebook campaign to get all europe to flood tfl with regestrations.
 
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A20 bypass fine

Is there a loophole here; Foreign registered vehicles have 6 months to register a vehicle with british Dvla this is an Eu directive. The onus is to register with UK database does this also include TFL.
 
I certainly wouldn't pay.
When you go to the LEZ website, the first paragraph has this included, "encourage the most polluting heavy diesel vehicles driving in London to become cleaner."

If you are driving a Petrol motor, why would you read further?

And if you do, well the next reasonable link to visit, is the "check if your vehicle is affected" Click on that, then where? Well, the "check vehicle by type" link seems a sensible way to go.

Work your way through the online wizard page, select Motor caravan or ambulance then next, "Does the vehicle run on diesel / bio-diesel?" select no and then next and it clearly states

"You are not affected by the Low Emission Zone.
You do not need to take any action."

No mention of registering, just you do not need to take any action. Well, thats clearly not the truth.
 
As the ofeence was comitted by a person and vechile reg outside the EU it is not enforcible under EU law
 
Couple of points, Switzerland might not be in EU but they have a series of bilateral agreements which allow them in the single market.
Other EU countries such as France operate similar system where even if your vehicle meets the standards not registering beforehand is an offence.
 
Now this is interesting, tfl seem to indicate that all vehicles must be registered, but i've come across a FOI answer from 2012, don't know if they have changed anything since.

The process in place requires the image of such a vehicle observed within
the LEZ to be reviewed by our European Debt Recovery Agent. The Agent will
first identify the country of origin of the vehicle and then approach that
country’s vehicle licensing authority to obtain the required vehicle
keeper details. The vehicle details are then used to determine the
vehicle’s compliance status and whether a PCN should be issued. This
process may take several months from point of observation to receiving a
response from each authority against each request. If a vehicle is not
subject to the LEZ or is compliant, no PCN is issued.
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On the front page of the LEZ (Low Emission Zone - Transport for London), it is clearly written:
"All non GB vehicles affected need to register in advance". I think this says it all. As a petrol car, I wasn't affected, had nothing to register.

I'll set up a letter, fax is to the EPL PLC and the TfL to tell them I wasn't supposed to register and look what happens.

I don't expect the EPL PLC to comply, because all they want is my money, not justice.
There are some hair-rising reports how they treat their victims, even when they are able to prove they haven't done anything wrong. i.e. parking tickets in countries they've never been. It's a shame that councils work with such companies.
 
I managed now to send them a formal objection. Case is frozen, the need up to 8 weeks to decide. Remember how much time they gave me to pay...
 
Horbach said:
I managed now to send them a formal objection. Case is frozen, the need up to 8 weeks to decide. Remember how much time they gave me to pay...
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Back in the early days of the Congestion Charge (the other PITA for london), I was sent a PCN for not having paid, a quick check at work and it transpired the sectary had booked me in for wrong day. I challenged PCN as it had been paid but just for wrong day (well it was worth trying), at time this was supposed to stop the process until a decision had been made, well it must have got them scratching heads as it took months to make a decision, and in the meantime further demands where made followed by treats of debt collection, now this pissed me off somewhat, so I asked that it be decided in court. Two days later I got a letter that they would drop the case on this one off occasion, but I would receive a fine if it reoccurred. I believe the reason it was dropped was because they hadn't followed procedure and wanted it brushed under the carpet. I note they have now tightened up the regs.
 
Steady on. There are many intelligent toilet cleaners who also have oodles of common sense!
 
Maybe they should introduce a system like the French Crit Air, where all vehicles entering the zone have to display a sticker showing their emissions.
 
Caz said:
Maybe they should introduce a system like the French Crit Air, where all vehicles entering the zone have to display a sticker showing their emissions.
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That still however requires the entering driver/vehicle owner to be aware that is what is required.

didds
 
I was on the rough end of this regulation with my Chausson van and they told me I had entered the LEZ and a £1000 fine was required,, BUT they allowed for one period of conversion to have the vehicle upgraded as It was the first time it had gone into London ( an enforced diversion from the bridge closure, down the A13 and back out the other side to the A2) Therefore I did not have to pay it that time. I went and bought a EURO 6 van but that wasn't recognised either as Hymer was not a recognised make. They did put it on the approved list after I pointed out it was a Sprinter with a different body on it.
The big thing with this case is that there is NO INFORMATION given out to any foreign visitor coming to this country about the LEZ and sod all on the approaches either that makes any sense, I knew nothing about it at all other that it was for big lorries going in. Natural justices would tell me to tell THEM to get stuffed for harassment and demanding money with threats. both criminal offences, or they were.
 
Next time I travel across the UK, I will write an email to all town councils affected of my journey and ask them if I have to register my car in advance, refering to my experiences in London.

Meanwhile, I could send an online objection to EPC PLC and wait for a response. Shortly after that, TFL sent me a response to my questions I sent them. They wrote that the fine is just a warning and I have to pay nothing yet. But EPC clearly asked for money.

The letter you've received is a warning letter and on this occasion no charges have been incurred.
Warning letters are sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle automatically when a Non Compliant vehicle enters the
LEZ for the first time and no daily charge has been paid.
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Legalised fraud . Fortunately the OP didn't cough up but how many people have ?
 
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