A call to arms!

[ricc]

having just skimmeed through this thread i have a couple of observations

youve got to be accurate in any letter to the council .... having a rant about a blanket ban just makes you look silly if thats not what they are proposing.

in some ways emailing the officer in charge of the proposal is a waste of effort... its probably his pet scheme.... you need to get other council officers on side ... they will be far more effective opposition, search the council departments... tourism, equal opportunities, discrimination, etc, even the cheif executive or the legal officer asking how it ties in with the councils policy on x,y,z..... do freedom of information requests to other departments which they have to answere... if you can get other departments pissed of with the work a daft proposal has caused your half way there.

 

[John H]

I'm still happy to not spend fuel and definitely not any time or money visiting a place or area that doesn't want my custom, unless I'm happy to be bullied into using an over priced campsite belonging to a fat greedy councilor.
i don't know about my comments being racist, but it is probably fat councillor-ist.

I totally agree with the first part of your post - there is absolutely no point in going where people don't want us as long as there are plenty of places we can go without causing any bother.

But as an ex-councillor who is probably a little overweight I would like to point out that I have never owned a campsite! :lol-053:

 

[maureenandtom]

Is Scarborough such a wonderful place to visit?
Is it worth all the discussion about parking.
Can't you just park in the town during the day and then find a wild camping spot or a pub for the night.
Isn't life short enough without worrying about Scarborough.

Well, when I was stationed in North Yorks 40 years ago, yes it was. And there are enough motorhomers using the town now to (1) say that it is a wonderful place to visit and (2) to cause residents to worry about their numbers..

Yes, you can park in the town etc.

And yes, life is short enough without worrying about Scarborough - or anything else come to that.

The point is that Scarborough is trying to accommodate motorhomes to the satisfaction of Scarborough residents and, so their elected representatives say, to the satisfaction of motorhomers too. It's arguable whether they're getting it right. Any compromise upsets somebody. They got the price wrong but it seems they're looking at that again. But they're making the effort and they're using the popular Aires system to do it - as a one year trial.

After that year then I suppose they might cancel the trial or it might be a success and then, who knows, maybe service points included?

Now, for those who compliment the continental system, and that's pretty well all of us, this is a start. Scarborough, from my point of view, is not all that important. Anywhere trying to institute the Aires system deserves to be helped because if one adopts the system (and others have done so already) then more can be persudaded to do so.

I'd like to see a "Guide Official to British Aires de Services." Anybody who has used the system in Europe probably agrees. Most certainly say so. Some say so and later forget what they've said!!! You've got to wonder why.

This could be a start.

 

[John H]

Now, for those who compliment the continental system, and that's pretty well all of us, this is a start. Scarborough, from my point of view, is not all that important. Anywhere trying to institute the Aires system deserves to be helped because if one adopts the system (and others have done so already) then more can be persudaded to do so.

As I have said before, any Council that introduces "aires", whether or not they charge for them, is a step in the right direction because at least they have taken our needs into consideration. But it seems to me that these councils are not all reading from the same hymn sheet. Hawick, for example, has - according to a recent thread - set aside free spaces for us and even provides a team of people to welcome us with information about the local area. Others (maybe Scarborough, but we will find out) appear to set aside areas but deliberately set the charge higher than CLs so that in effect it is a ban. The first, I would like to see followed by others; I'm not sure about the second!

 

[maingate]

Google 'Portas Plan'.

If your town is one of those looking to implement her plan (Mary Portas I mean) then get yourself involved as it is a good opportunity to get changes made which may benefit us.

 

[Shockingdog]

E.mail sent

I may not be the best at writing a letter, but here is my mail:

Mr Bennett,

re the proposed banning of motorhomes.

I feel that any ban is not taking a long term positive approach to tourism.

Every area should be encouraging ANY form of tourism, but why concentrate on Motorhomes?

If you feel that the free parking of a motorhome reduces income from hotels or campsites, that is maybe as if you are aware of the requirements of a motorhome, you will realise that they do not require the facilities offered by either a hotel or campsite.

Are you concerned about someone getting something for free?? if so I presume you will remove all of the picnic tables from your area as they are stopping restaurants and cafés gaining an income. They are after all, getting something for free.

If you were to be an enlightened council, you would offer at low rate or free facilities for the growing number of motorhomes rather than turn them away. Believe it or not, we do spend in the towns we visit, but perhaps distribute our wealth in a different manner. Many authorities across Europe actively encourage motorhomes to stay and spend money in their locality.

I appreciate that there will be a small minority who abuse any service that a council provides, but a blanket ban on motorhomes is a totally negative attitude.

I presume the council has an equal opportunities policy along with an anti discrimination policy, surely by banning a single class of vehicle will go against both of these policies??

In order to discuss further please forward:

1. The proposal to ban motorhomes and the rationale behind these proposals.
2. The councils Equal Opportunities Policy
3. The councils anti discrimination policy
4. The proposed cost of implementing such a ban including any works to be undertaken.

Please let me know if you get a reply and the details of same.I am watching this one with some interest.
Thanks
S/Dog

 

[Northerner]

Please let me know if you get a reply and the details of same.I am watching this one with some interest.
Thanks
S/Dog

I suspect he'll get an email asking him what he's on about because, if you read the thread completely you'll see that there is no intention whatsoever to ban motorhomes! In a nutshell, a member saw a notice, completely misinterpreted what was written and came on here accusing the council of banning motorhomes from 60 car parks when in fact the proposal was to ban just overnight parking on 15 car parks. From the original post and one or two others you'd think that the council in question was eventually going to set up concentration camps and eliminate us all!

As a result of this we've got people writing intemperate emails to the council accusing them of something that's not actually going to happen. Honestly, you couldn't make it up!

 

[sean rua]

Parking and the law are strange things, imo.

At Dusseldorf airport, they've brought in "female only parking" in a designated part of the park. I expect you all know about it.
Apparently, folk travel from miles around just to rubberneck at those parking up. It seems they have some bigger bays with no hard impediments in the vicinity.

This unlikely tourist attraction is said to pay dividends, as it has encouraged ladies to use the airport as they're confident of finding nice easy parking.

Where this leaves Brussels with all their chat about "equality" , "sexism", "fovouritism" etc, I have no idea.

Just something else to throw into the mix, I suppose.


sean rua


" Ignorance is Treatable; Arrogance is Terminal."

 

[Bigpeetee]

More Detail:

Below some facts from Scarborough Borough Council re parking restrictions plus minutes from meetings.

Actual Notice: http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/pdf/NOI__Off_Street..pdf

Web site info: Public Notices | Scarborough Borough Council

Reasons: http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/pdf/statement_of_reasons_2..pdf

Draft Order: http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/pdf/DRAFT_Oder_front_page..pdf

Equality Policy: Harassment - advice and support : North Yorkshire County Council



Car Parking Fees and Charges 2012/2013
Meeting of Health and Wellbeing Scrutiny Committee, Wednesday, 23rd November, 2011 2.00 pm (Item 8.)

Motorhomes

Councillor Abbott voiced concern at motorhomes staying overnight in car parks in the Borough, and suggested the use of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 to help address this problem. Mr Clark replied that he was consulting with Legal Services about this issue, and would pass on Councillor Abbott’s suggestion. Any proposals resulting from Legal Services’ advice would be considered by the Car Parking Review Group and then the scrutiny committee.

Meeting: 20/10/2009 - Cabinet (Item 17)


17 Objections to Proposed Parking Orders PDF 178 KB

To consider a report by the Head of Technical Services (Reference 09/621 attached).

Minutes:

The Cabinet considered a report by the Head of Technical Services (Reference 09/621). Councillor Backhouse stated that this report was to address the issue of motorhomes parking overnight and having free use of facilities. The Head of Technical Services, John Riby stated that there were both on street and off street car parking regulations to deal with this but neither were completely helpful. A final option would be to not proceed and the matter be referred back to the car parking working group and that the issue be taken to the Department for Transport. This meant finding other authorities that were in a similar situation who could also lobby the Department for Transport alongside Scarborough Borough Council. Councillor Fox stated that there was then a fourth resolution to refer this to the parking group who would take this up with the Department for Transport. Councillor Backhouse stated that the Council was not against motorhomes but were trying to manage these.

RESOLVED that:

(i) the report be received;

(ii) the objections received be noted; and

(iii) Members refer the issue back to the Parking working group and ask that they liaise with the Department for Transport to determine whether any alternatives to the proposals in the report may be possible

Reasons:

To recognise the concerns of the objectors and to improve management of Off Street parking places.

 

[Northerner]

At Dusseldorf airport, they've brought in "female only parking" in a designated part of the park. I expect you all know about it.
Apparently, folk travel from miles around just to rubberneck at those parking up. It seems they have some bigger bays with no hard impediments in the vicinity.

This unlikely tourist attraction is said to pay dividends, as it has encouraged ladies to use the airport as they're confident of finding nice easy parking.

Where this leaves Brussels with all their chat about "equality" , "sexism", "fovouritism" etc, I have no idea.

Just something else to throw into the mix, I suppose.


sean rua


" Ignorance is Treatable; Arrogance is Terminal."

Oh dear, another urban myth being propagated! There is no female-only parking at Düsseldorf Airport, but the Holiday Inn, which is several miles away, has designated 20 of its 200 places for women. They are no more free of encumbrances than any other spaces in the hotel's car park but are slightly wider to enable women, who are often likely to be accompanied by babies and children to have a little more space to open wide their doors and remove child safety seats etc.

There is no evidence whatsoever that people are travelling for miles to watch women parking and why would they for God's sake? This is exactly what we have in the U.K where many supermarkets now have mother and child spaces for exactly the same reason.

So there's no discrimination, no sexism, no implication that women cannot park in normal-sized slots, just common sense and a willingness to assist women who may be struggling with infants. Ah, how these tales travel, gaining more and more 'facts' as they are bowled along!

As is usual most years, I shall be flying to Düsseldorf for a short trip to a trade fair at Cologne Messe but I'll be sure to tell all my friends that, rather than just hopping on to the train to Cologne when they reach Düsseldorf Airport, they should nip up the road to watch a few ladies parking at the Holiday Inn! I'm sure that they can't wait!

 

[al n sal]

And people wonder why we're not wanted and disliked by many people. Who's bullied you into using a campsite? How do you know that they're overpriced? Which councillor owns a campsite? If such a person existed what has his weight got to do with it? If I were a councillor I wouldn't want anyone with views like yours 100 miles from my town. They simply show that you are unreasonable, selfish and care nothing for anyone else. You should read the post earlier in this thread where one member admits that he spends as little as possible whenever he goes anywhere!

Has it ever occurred to you that councillors act on the wishes of their constituents and that maybe the residents of Scarborough are sick to death of free-loading motorhomers who think that they've the God-given right to park anywhere just because they've spent a few grand on a campervan? Just for once in your life try to see things from other people's point of view. The way to address a problem such as this is with reasonable discussion and putting forward intelligent arguments, not silly rants that have no basis in any facts.

maybe YOU should re look at all the posts and threads and also national press regarding Scarborough and some councillors..Councillor expenses (and before the torrent of replies, I know its not all, only a few but enough to be noticed and cost multi-thousands) ..........other than that...as highlighted..your entitled to your opinion as we very often see posted............

 

[Northerner]

maybe YOU should re look at all the posts and threads and also national press regarding Scarborough and some councillors..Councillor expenses (and before the torrent of replies, I know its not all, only a few but enough to be noticed and cost multi-thousands) ..........other than that...as highlighted..your entitled to your opinion as we very often see posted............

What the hell has that got to do with motorhome parking? And you also appear to have your opinions as well, which you post regularly, but your opinions, or certainly the latest one is one of the most bigoted and vile that I've ever seen on here and to remind others, this is what you said!

'I'm still happy to not spend fuel and definitely not any time or money visiting a place or area that doesn't want my custom, unless I'm happy to be bullied into using an over priced campsite belonging to a fat greedy councilor.
i don't know about my comments being racist, but it is probably fat councillor-ist.'

Do you consider that that insulting rant is reasonable and fair? If you do, you need to seriously rethink your attitude to others. Apart from which it bears no relation to the facts whatsoever.

 

[al n sal]

What the hell has that got to do with motorhome parking? And you also appear to have your opinions as well, which you post regularly, but your opinions, or certainly the latest one is one of the most bigoted and vile that I've ever seen on here and to remind others, this is what you said!

'I'm still happy to not spend fuel and definitely not any time or money visiting a place or area that doesn't want my custom, unless I'm happy to be bullied into using an over priced campsite belonging to a fat greedy councilor.
i don't know about my comments being racist, but it is probably fat councillor-ist.'

Do you consider that that insulting rant is reasonable and fair? If you do, you need to seriously rethink your attitude to others. Apart from which it bears no relation to the facts whatsoever.

:angel:

 

[sean rua]

Thank you, Northener,
for putting us straight about the special parking bays for females ( an actual fact) in Dusseldorf.
Although I don't believe my German correspondent had any malicious intention to spread lies or start another "urban myth", as you called it,
I shall get on the phone to give him the rollicking he no doubt deserves. :idea-007:

Here is a clip directly from the company's spiel:

"
Welcome to Holiday Inn Düsseldorf Airport - Ratingen
Stop over at the welcoming Holiday Inn Düsseldorf Airport-Ratingen, close to Düsseldorf International Airport and downtown Düsseldorf.

The homely Holiday Inn Düsseldorf Airport-Ratingen is just a short ride in our complimentary shuttle bus from Düsseldorf International Airport, 4km away. Our sparkling swimming pool flows from inside the hotel to a leafy summer garden, with a barbecue terrace and quirky sand beach. The offices of downtown Düsseldorf are 10km away.

It's easy to get to your appointments on the outskirts of Düsseldorf with international companies like Schneider Electric, TDK Electronic Components Europe and Mitsubishi all under 1km away. Gather at Messe Düsseldorf convention centre, only 9km from Holiday Inn Düsseldorf Airport-Ratingen."


Obviously, this four star place wouldn't be good enough for you and your illustrious and jovial mates, but, hey, it's glad to hear about them having fun, being as you're such a serious and sensitive chap yourself. :

"" I shall be flying to Düsseldorf for a short trip to a trade fair at Cologne Messe but I'll be sure to tell all my friends that, rather than just hopping on to the train to Cologne when they reach Düsseldorf Airport, they should nip up the road to watch a few ladies parking at the Holiday Inn! I'm sure that they can't wait! "": Northener.

--

No, I bet they can't.:ninja:
However, I would have thought the pink-walled special female parking facility in Tianjin, China, would have been more their thing.
You probably saw that and the original piece about "men only" parking in Bavaria in the Daily Mail - not a paper I read myself, btw, though I did view their website with all the lovely pictures.

There again, if their reporting of this, what I thought was, light-hearted piece, about all sorts of "isms" in the world of parking,
is as inaccurate as their usual guff about DALE FARM ( Oak Lane)
then, I suppose they too could be guilty of spreading "urban myths".:have fun:

Btw, I loved your bit on the other thread, where you pin the blame on the Travelling people. I'd forgotten that quote that you liked so much. You know, the one about "vermin".

It was almost as hilarious as your gag about having just returned from selling pegs and flowers in Eastern Europe.
I bet that got your Dusseldorf mates guffawing and chortling away too! :rockroll:

It's nice to be nice. :goodluck:


sean rua

" Ignorance is Treatable; Arrogance is Terminal."
( taken from the vermin trappers website of America and Australia).

 

[berniesbargreece]

Not an appology!

Thankyou, I'll take that as an apology.




I agree, but before calling for an all out revolution I think it's best to find out exactly what we're fighting for.

And for the record;

1) I don't work for SBC.

2) I don't own a B&B.

I'm originally from "the Boro" ( and yes I did live in the Cannon St area, went to both St Pats, lived over the road from one of them) so I know how "yous" lot can easily get excited.

An appology this aint my friend. I am stunned that you seem to be more concerned that I misread the notice!! You and me see things very differently my friend. SBC are 100% wrong and have overstepped the mark. I will do everything I can to try to stop this. You carry on highlighting other motorhome users mistakes if it makes you feel better!!

 

[berniesbargreece]

Why SHOULD anyone be forced to Pay anyone to park

And people wonder why we're not wanted and disliked by many people. Who's bullied you into using a campsite? How do you know that they're overpriced? Which councillor owns a campsite? If such a person existed what has his weight got to do with it? If I were a councillor I wouldn't want anyone with views like yours 100 miles from my town. They simply show that you are unreasonable, selfish and care nothing for anyone else. You should read the post earlier in this thread where one member admits that he spends as little as possible whenever he goes anywhere!

Has it ever occurred to you that councillors act on the wishes of their constituents and that maybe the residents of Scarborough are sick to death of free-loading motorhomers who think that they've the God-given right to park anywhere just because they've spent a few grand on a campervan? Just for once in your life try to see things from other people's point of view. The way to address a problem such as this is with reasonable discussion and putting forward intelligent arguments, not silly rants that have no basis in any facts.

I want the freedom to park ANYWHERE any other vehicle can.... why shouldnt I expect that? I dont have a problem with campsites, I do have a problem when I am banned from parking in areas I KNOW I should be allowed to park.

 

[Northerner]

I want the freedom to park ANYWHERE any other vehicle can.... why shouldnt I expect that? I dont have a problem with campsites, I do have a problem when I am banned from parking in areas I KNOW I should be allowed to park.

Well of course you do, because you're obviously unable to work out why there are restrictions and height barriers in certain places. Are you seriously suggesting that motorhomes and even caravans being towed by cars should just be able to park anywhere they like without regard for anyone else? The problem is that we're our own worst enemy and, if you allow unrestricted parking of motorhomes there are a number of people who will take the mickey and within no time they'll be on Scarborough prom for a week with their chairs out! There was a news article recently on TV about an old bloke who parked opposite St. Michael's Mount in Cornwall for a fortnight every year. When interviewed his attitude was just like yours: "I know my rights, I should be allowed to park anywhere blah blah blah." I suspect that, because of people like him, there are now much tougher rules for all of us.

Perhaps you could start by trying to understand why certain place have this antipathy to motorhomes? Not just here but in many other countries as well where height barriers proliferate. Even in supposedly motorhome-friendly France the Mediterranean resorts are awash with them. Why would they restrict motorhomes, which bring in a few extra tourists? Could it be that they've learned that the disadvantages of allowing motorhomes to park totally outweighs the advantages? One disadvantage being that if parking is completely unrestricted, tinkers and travellers may well descend and we've all learned how hard it is to get them to move on.

And I'm sorry that you're not prepared to apologise for your totally mistaken rant (for rant it was) which caused people to write to the council and end up with egg on their faces complaining about a problem that actually didn't exist!

 

[berniesbargreece]

Let's just agree to disagree

Well of course you do, because you're obviously unable to work out why there are restrictions and height barriers in certain places. Are you seriously suggesting that motorhomes and even caravans being towed by cars should just be able to park anywhere they like without regard for anyone else? The problem is that we're our own worst enemy and, if you allow unrestricted parking of motorhomes there are a number of people who will take the mickey and within no time they'll be on Scarborough prom for a week with their chairs out! There was a news article recently on TV about an old bloke who parked opposite St. Michael's Mount in Cornwall for a fortnight every year. When interviewed his attitude was just like yours: "I know my rights, I should be allowed to park anywhere blah blah blah." I suspect that, because of people like him, there are now much tougher rules for all of us.

Perhaps you could start by trying to understand why certain place have this antipathy to motorhomes? Not just here but in many other countries as well where height barriers proliferate. Even in supposedly motorhome-friendly France the Mediterranean resorts are awash with them. Why would they restrict motorhomes, which bring in a few extra tourists? CCould it be that they've learned that the disadvantages of allowing motorhomes to park totally outweighs the advantages? One disadvantage being that if parking is completely unrestricted, tinkers and travellers may well descend and we've all learned how hard it is to get them to move on.

And I'm sorry that you're not prepared to apologise for your totally mistaken rant (for rant it was) which caused people to write to the council and end up with egg on their faces complaining about a problem that actually didn't exist!

This proposed ban is for "overnight" parking when the town is at its quietest,, from 7pm till early in the morning, I have never been to Whitby and found the proposed car parks full... Not even close to full, if you believe this ban is in anyway fair then that's your decision. As for the Rant... As you called it, it's a proposed ban on "overnight" that I find unacceptable, when the vast majority of folk are home. The simple fact is this, If you let these people impose their rules on issues that quite frankly "ain't a problem" to anyone, they will see it as a green light to do whatever they want! Anyone who complained as a result of my "rant" has not got egg on their faces, far from it, they should be happy they have complained because I would gladly shake their hand!! This overnight ban is an appeasement to B&B owners and "oversubsidised" Farmers who are being bloody minded and downright selfish. If this issue were about daytime parking I would see your point, but it ain't, overnight bans are not on!

 

[Funky Farmer]

What the heck have farmers got to do with anything? I have camped on a lot of farmer's land. Mind you, I have always asked permission first which is only right IMHO

 

[Bigpeetee]

Reply to my E.Mail:

Dear Sir/madam
I am in receipt of your objection to the proposed changes to Off Street Parking Regulations to prohibit motor caravan parking on 14 car parks in the Borough of Scarborough. (information available on link below)
Public Notices | Scarborough Borough Council
Your objection will be considered together with any other objections received at the meeting of the Cabinet on Tuesday 18 September 2012.
I will advise you of the outcome following that meeting.
Yours sincerely
Jane Wilson
Deputy Parking Manager
Scarborough Borough Council
Tel (01723) 383582
Home | Scarborough Borough Council