1970s bylaw used to ban camping in lake District.

[Mobilvetta]

Just seen this blog from someone who was sleeping in there motorhome in a layby in the lake District national park yesterday, apparently the lake District national park authority along with the police are now enforcing a no camping bylaw that was introduced in 1970 but has never been enforced before.

It seems the police officers from 4.00pm were going around moving camper vans off, this man was woken up at 11.30 pm and given the option to move or face a £500 fine, it has been brought about by campers who have been littering the lake District with there tents and human waste. Shame as I love the lake District, I am Lucy enough to have a use of a boat berthed in Windermere to be able to stop in that.

Here is the link to the blogg were he has actually recorded the conversation with the police officer.

I would be interested if any members could dig up this bylaw back from the 1970s or could suggest how you would go about it, seems again people who are self contained in there motorhomes are been penalised.

 

[mistericeman]

Bylaw 10 in access section....

Byelaws

A list of byelaws in the National Park.

www.lakedistrict.gov.uk

 

[colinm]

AFAIK all national parks have similar if not same, and it is enforced if anyone complains.

 

[runnach]

I am slightly concerned he was moved on but the policeman didn’t quote the specific bylaw,,,,,other authorities will be taking note, start of a slippery slope,,,,for some sectors of the travelling communities being moved on is a regular occurrence so we perhaps shouldn’t be to surprised

 

[2cv]

I find that quite shocking. When the Loch Lomond park authorities attempted to stop all camping or occupying vehicles overnight it proved to be the case that they had no juristiction over the roads and laybys away from private land. See the q and a about staying in laybys. Maybe if the police moved on people in a layby they were exceeding their powers.

 

[mistericeman]

I find that quite shocking. When the Loch Lomond park authorities attempted to stop all camping or occupying vehicles overnight it proved to be the case that they had no juristiction over the roads and laybys away from private land. See the q and a about staying in laybys. Maybe if the police moved on people in a layby they were exceeding their powers.

Possibly different laws for Scotland?

 

[2cv]

Possibly different laws for Scotland?

That may well be the case, however it may be that the national parks have no powers over the roads within them.

 

[tidewatcher]

Unfortunately the misuse of camper vans in some areas plus the constant problem with travellers complicates the way authorities can enforce acceptable motorhome use while protecting communities from travellers taking over public areas. Where I live an area which was designated for overnight camper vans was recently lost due to some misuse, mostly inconsiderate parking and use of awnings and chairs outside. Unfortunately while trying to get this area reinstated it has now been taken over by travellers, also using very upmarket camper vans and caravans. To the public it Is hard to distinguish on first sight the difference. The easy answer for the council is a height barrier, this has not yet happened but you can see their logic.

 

[Wooie1958]

We are our own worst enemy.

 

[2cv]

BBC report.

 

[Val54]

I find that quite shocking. When the Loch Lomond park authorities attempted to stop all camping or occupying vehicles overnight it proved to be the case that they had no juristiction over the roads and laybys away from private land. See the q and a about staying in laybys. Maybe if the police moved on people in a layby they were exceeding their powers.

I think if you dig deep enough you will find that all National Parks have such a restriction in place as do the NP’s in France etc

 

[runnach]

Unfortunately the misuse of camper vans in some areas plus the constant problem with travellers complicates the way authorities can enforce acceptable motorhome use while protecting communities from travellers taking over public areas. Where I live an area which was designated for overnight camper vans was recently lost due to some misuse, mostly inconsiderate parking and use of awnings and chairs outside. Unfortunately while trying to get this area reinstated it has now been taken over by travellers, also using very upmarket camper vans and caravans. To the public it Is hard to distinguish on first sight the difference. The easy answer for the council is a height barrier, this has not yet happened but you can see their logic.

For all intents and purposes there is NO difference between ourselves and travellers a vehicle is being used for occupation whether that be day or night. If charged you may be bailed on the fact you can offer a residential addresss.that is the only difference ( full timers dont enjoy that benefit)

Whether it is a legacy of covid 19 for the recent heavy enforcement the travelling community are often moved on, many not all,form travelling groups safety in numbers but proposed legislation will class more than two vans together a
gathering.

There is a constant banging of the drum by fisherman we somehow distance our group,whilst I understand the sentiment not sure how, the way things are unfolding there is a stronger argument that all outdoor recreational users band together to stop this steam rolling of a pastime in our instance.

Economically as more and more lose jobs, can’t pay rent and mortgages more people will live on the road placing even more pressure on finite resources

Start of a slippery slope

 

[Debroos]

I wonder what would happen if you said you had pulled over because you were exhausted. Surely to move someone on who was in that position would not be allowed....

 

[winks]

Indicative of a deeper malady in my opinion.

I am fortunate in that I was born and brought up on the southern edge of the Lake District and spent day after day cycling, walking and camping within 20 miles of home.There used to be public transport then which was reliable and cheap. I could leave home and get to Grasmere by bus for not long after 08.30 and cheaply enough to do it on milk round money. LDNPA is a double edged sword as most of these organisations tend to be, providing an armature for the would be managers of all things to build themselves a career, same applies to the NT. Even such worthy organisations as YHA are fully infected with this corporate bollox. Add in the very expensive charges for camp sites and the creeping gentrifications of big money second home buyers and there is the perfect storm against which people will struggle to have any free space.

No doubt, we are living in interesting times. Got to wonder though, why the heavy handed approach? Surely an instruction to move on in the morning and a record of registration number is enough for anyone. Here's an idea. How about getting Mike, Miranda et al out of their cosy offices at Ambleside and Grasmere to assist the wild men of the woods in clearing up the mess? Thought not, meetings and forms to be attended to ...Oh and someone needs to enforce those parking charges, of course.

Cheers

H

 

[2cv]

As far as roads and laybys go they may not have the right to impose their bylaw.

 

[Val54]

The bylaw can't apply to Crown Land, ie the highway, but from memory there isn't a properly formed layby within the highway running alongside Butttermere. There are a couple of places where the verge has been eroded and people stop there. I doubt that is highway and in any event the bylaw is a blanket cover of the NP including roadside verges. Still heavy handed though, having taken the vehicle reg it would have been easy to check movements the following morning and issue a fine if still there.

 

[colinm]

The thing is the story has now got around the country, and people will now think twice before parking up in the lake district, like it or not, job done.

 

[Fisherman]

We really need to take a long hard look at ourselves in this country.
I have twice booked campsites in the Lake District and had to do so six months in advance. And they were expensive at around £35 a night.
The culprits should have been dealt with who behave like sick animals destroying wonderful countryside. But instead people who value the countryside and who behave properly are threatened with £500 fines 30 minutes before midnight.
What’s required here is some joined up thinking, not rash severely punitive treatment of reasonable people. But yet again it’s the big hammer instead of reason that’s used. A £500 fine is less than what some people receive for far more serious crimes.

 

[Deleted member 77519]

Like it or not, it's going to be a long long time before things settle down again. It might be back to asking farmers for permission to use a field corner, like people used to. I've done it in the past with a tent.

 

[Deleted member 77519]

We really need to take a long hard look at ourselves in this country.
I have twice booked campsites in the Lake District and had to do so six months in advance. And they were expensive at around £35 a night.
The culprits should have been dealt with who behave like sick animals destroying wonderful countryside. But instead people who value the countryside and who behave properly are threatened with £500 fines 30 minutes before midnight.
What’s required here is some joined up thinking, not rash severely punitive treatment of reasonable people. But yet again it’s the big hammer instead of reason that’s used. A £500 fine is less than what people get for far more serious crimes.

And how many land owners have had permission to change use of land for camping refused?. I know 2 in the Lakedistrict. So here we are, with limited sites that cost a fortune.