12v issue and the use of external portable generator or battery pack

[Malcdhill]

The 12v system on my van has decided to pack up completely when running on the internal batteries (even after just having two new batteries fitted!!!). It still works when running the engine or hooking to a sites EHU, so I suspect it is a fault on the Electrobloc but can’t get it in till the end of July. We now need to take the Motorhome to a friends party in the next two weeks and will be parking in the field the event is being held on, but no EHU. I am thinking of hiring the “1.6kVA Portable Suitcase Generator“ from HSS as it should give me plenty of power for the lights and water pumps. Has anyone tried plugging their Motorhome into a portable generator, and has anyone used this particular one, or has any recommendations for something similar (I am based in the North West). There will be lots of tents on the field so I can’t use a standard hire generator as it would make too much noise.

 

[trevskoda]

Time to turf the electroblock and do a refit with sep units, some of the small s case gens are very qt, to me though its just money wasted, could you not borrow one to tied you over.

 

[Malcdhill]

I would be interested in finding out more about the SEP units (it’s a new one to me - so thanks for the suggestion), but I don’t know of anyone who has one to lend, it would be a great solution thoug.

 

[trevskoda]

I would be interested in finding out more about the SEP units (it’s a new one to me - so thanks for the suggestion), but I don’t know of anyone who has one to lend, it would be a great solution thoug.

All my van is sep units, charging from mains, solar and all bats can be linked if required, both less and starter are charged from solar and mains, so if one unit dies the others still work.

 

[Malcdhill]

Thanks for this, I will look into it as an option when they can take it in.

 

[trevskoda]

Thanks for this, I will look into it as an option when they can take it in.

Very few will understand, they just want to retofit there units, its a home job.

 

[Boris7]

If your near Towcester I could lend you one

 

[rugbyken]

most tool hire places have various generators for hire but from a noise point of view try & get an l p g version

 

[wildebus]

I would be interested in finding out more about the SEP units (it’s a new one to me - so thanks for the suggestion), but I don’t know of anyone who has one to lend, it would be a great solution thoug.

Just in case there is any confusion, when Trev talks about "sep" units, he is referring to separate units (fuseboxes, consumer units, chargers, etc), not a brand called SEP. (I kind of got the impression that when you typed "more about the SEP units" you may have thought it was a brand?)

As a general comment, Factory built motorhomes and a lot of self-builds use "all-in-one" units like EBLs (German ones), Sargent (British ones), CBE (Italian make but used by a few all over europe). These tend to be used for the convenience of the builders and not because they are necessarily better than using separate components.
When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter if it is a EBL, a Sargent, a CBE, a PMS, or whatever, they take in 12V from the battery and distribute it to various circuits via the built-in fuse box; they take in 230V from hookup and charge the battery via the built-in charger; they connect the starter battery to the leisure battery via a built-in relay; etc. None of those things cannot fairly easily be replicated (and often improved on) by replacement devices separate to what is built it (my Sargent has a built-in Charger and a built-in relay - I don't use either as I have added better ones).

As to your actual problem, have you done the basics such as checked all the fuses, any loose connections, etc? This suitcase generator you are looking at ... I am not familiar with it, but from the sound of it and your problem description, does it mean you have to be running a generator ANY and EVERY time you want any power at all, even just a light or to run the water pump? that could be very inconvenient, expensive to run and annoying to anyone camped close by. I think I would look deeper to see if you can get the 12V system going, even if just bypassing (safely!) the EBL.

 

[Nabsim]

I do use a generator as a backup but I use it to charge my battery bank. I don’t think it a good option to run a generator to power pumps, lights etc unless you are in a spot on your own. During the day most people don’t mind an hour or two of faintly quiet generator but at night…

If all your 12v works when you have shore power connection then it may just be the built in battery charger in the EBL that’s failed. In mine there is a fuse in the EBL for the charger so check that first, there is also a kettle type 240V plug connected to the EBL check that is pushed right in. If fuse is okay just get a mains charger connected to hab battery bank and charge the battery’s. You could do this during the day with a generator if needed keeping others happier. Do you have any solar to keep battery levels up a bit once you have some charge in the battery bank? Be aware you may have killed battery capacity and need new battery’s also.

If your panel lights up and 12V works on hookup be careful of anyone wanting to replace the EBL as while this would fix the problem it sounds to me it is just the mains charger from what info you have given. Charger much less than an EBL and I think that’s the only bit of 240V built into the EBL. I bypassed mine as I wanted higher amp chargers, just pulled the 240V kettle plug out and all works except the mains charger

 

[Nabsim]

most tool hire places have various generators for hire but from a noise point of view try & get an l p g version

I haven’t noticed much difference in noise between running petrol to lpg on the same generator Ken, only looked at one model though. Only advantage to me was not having to carry petrol. Fair premium on lpg as well and unless done properly it wears the valves in the head (so a vary experienced lpg fitter told me anyway (John at Autogas 2000))

 

[MrRob]

Don’t run a generator anywhere near tents. Sound is a nuisance but isn’t a killer. Exhaust gasses are.

 

[Nabsim]

Just in case there is any confusion, when Trev talks about "sep" units, he is referring to separate units (fuseboxes, consumer units, chargers, etc), not a brand called SEP. (I kind of got the impression that when you typed "more about the SEP units" you may have thought it was a brand?)

As a general comment, Factory built motorhomes and a lot of self-builds use "all-in-one" units like EBLs (German ones), Sargent (British ones), CBE (Italian make but used by a few all over europe). These tend to be used for the convenience of the builders and not because they are necessarily better than using separate components.
When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter if it is a EBL, a Sargent, a CBE, a PMS, or whatever, they take in 12V from the battery and distribute it to various circuits via the built-in fuse box; they take in 230V from hookup and charge the battery via the built-in charger; they connect the starter battery to the leisure battery via a built-in relay; etc. None of those things cannot fairly easily be replicated (and often improved on) by replacement devices separate to what is built it (my Sargent has a built-in Charger and a built-in relay - I don't use either as I have added better ones).

As to your actual problem, have you done the basics such as checked all the fuses, any loose connections, etc? This suitcase generator you are looking at ... I am not familiar with it, but from the sound of it and your problem description, does it mean you have to be running a generator ANY and EVERY time you want any power at all, even just a light or to run the water pump? that could be very inconvenient, expensive to run and annoying to anyone camped close by. I think I would look deeper to see if you can get the 12V system going, even if just bypassing (safely!) the EBL.

Just to add confirmation to this, my EBL has a type of split charge relay built in but output from it was pathetic. I didn’t see more than high 13V going to the battery’s when I used it so while it does have something it was never up to the off grid use I do

 

[Malcdhill]

Hi All. Thanks for this, it’s real “food for thought”.
I will go and check out the fuses, as it’s something I should have done (not great on van electric’s!!). I appreciate the advice for when the garage look at it too, but they have been good in the past (just extremely busy). I am also looking into the external battery options mentioned, and will let you know. Again, thanks for all your comments and advice, it’s appreciate.

 

[jagmanx]

I have a calira unit. It is German.
It charges both batteries and works alongside a 120watt solar panel and controller.
My opinion Fwiw is that a single unit is best. Provided it does charge both batteries.

 

[colinm]

Couple of things to note.
All those things you say work on ehu are controlled through the ebl, this points to a problem between the ebl and battery, as above could be fuse, they are also prone to burning out connectors particularly if you have too big a battery bank, another thing could be knackered batteries.
If it's a fuse, no big deal apart from trying to find it. If it's a burnt out connecter or battery, running it on ehu or genny could cause even more problems.

 

[1 Cup]

Better to have and not need . Than need and not have. I for got ladder and lost 5 hours. Take what you want as time is precious. Just park in the down wind corner. With your rented genny.


Your 12 volt issues wont be fixed tho. I tend to buy / spend on the things that fix the problem . Not delay it !

To me its new nackered batteries. I'd start with them and then earths wires, last thing consumer unit .you have a few days take them out and put them on charge now .
My van just used 150amps in four days last weekend but I have cheap solar panels but dear blue boxes.

 

[Geek]

The 12v system on my van has decided to pack up completely when running on the internal batteries (even after just having two new batteries fitted!!!). It still works when running the engine or hooking to a sites EHU, so I suspect it is a fault on the Electrobloc but can’t get it in till the end of July. We now need to take the Motorhome to a friends party in the next two weeks and will be parking in the field the event is being held on, but no EHU. I am thinking of hiring the “1.6kVA Portable Suitcase Generator“ from HSS as it should give me plenty of power for the lights and water pumps. Has anyone tried plugging their Motorhome into a portable generator, and has anyone used this particular one, or has any recommendations for something similar (I am based in the North West). There will be lots of tents on the field so I can’t use a standard hire generator as it would make too much noise.

The Electroblock is just a very basic connecting board with a few relays several fuses and lots of connection sockets. It's very likely that your problem is just an inline fuse blown, or fuse holder melted, possibly one that isn't actually fitted in the Electroblock. Start by taking each fuse out in turn, checking it and refitting it.

The charger/power supply is a separate unit inside the Electroblock box. You could simply unplug its mains lead, connect a decent battery charger and plug that into the mains. Use that to charge the batteries.

My guess is that the "portable suitcase generator" will be noisy, smelly and VERY expensive to run. Find a different solution.

 

[witzend]

How about a Jackory other makes available a neighbour converted a van and thats all he use,s charges it via solar, engine or ehu gives 240v 12v + usb

 

[trevskoda]

Apart from about 12 weeks in deep winter my solar charges both starter and les batts up no bother, why all this ehu stuff 24/7.