'No overnight stays''

[n brown]

good heavens all those years i have been boiling a 12 volt kettle in my car and having 40 winks making me a crim,should i hand myself in or is someone here going to dob me in. The worlds gone mad.

a kettle boiler and a winker ! no wonder we are being banished from the ancestral laybys of our forefathers, etc

 

[Deleted member 967]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe any sign, to be lawful, has to have details of the relevant legislation , which is found on a metal plate on the back of the sign. ???

That legislation has changed (March 2015) with more relaxed regulations in the (Traffic Signs Design and Guidance Regulations)TSDGR 2015. This has removed some of the prescriptive regulation in designing road signs. I am unable as yet to find a copy of the new regulations online (only the consultation documents of 2014) but some authorities are implementing some of the relaxed measures already (Width of parking bays). This is what this coalition government has described as "Hands off Government". Until we can get our hands on the new regulations we are unable to answer you question yorklass.

 

[trevskoda]

a kettle boiler and a winker ! no wonder we are being banished from the ancestral laybys of our forefathers, etc

thank goodness you did not make a typo error there.

 

[Deleted member 967]

David it is worse than you think.

After 400+ FOI requests to councils and other authorities the range of things you can get a PCN for is frightening.

You cannot remain in your parked car for longer than it takes to park it or remove it from a parking bay.
You cannot run you engine except to move the vehicle.
You cannot raise your voice. or sound your horn.
Where you display your parking ticket is stated. This varies from authority to authority.
One authority even states a 30cm max overhang front or rear. This authority also has restricted parking bay size to 4.8m by 2.4m.
Weight limits of 1,525kg or 2,000kg apply in a lot of car parks. The majority have 3,000kg to 3,500kg limits. Not often visible on entry
York City bans any vehicle equipped for sleeping from any of its city car parks 24/7, even if it fits under the height barrier and fits into a marked bay. You have to use the out of town P&R sites and they are restricted to day use only. This is termed wrong type of vehicle.
Wrong type of vehicle applies to many car parks. it is also applied to Coach and Lorry parking as well as disabled bays.
One authority even stated its car parks are provided for local residents, not for visitors.
In some trailers are banned. In others the trailer must be attached at all times, but two tickets purchased, however this authority banned a vehicle that overhung its bays from purchasing an extra ticket. Another insisted that the trailer must be detached and treated as a separate vehicle.
There are also no overnight parking bans in unlocked car parks.

There is little provision for vehicles over 6m long and between 3,500kg and 7,500kg.

 

[Jazzbow]

Poi

This is a spot in the Wild Camp POIs.

Can you tell me if there were signs at this location?

The other posters are correct that there are bye-laws that apply to National Parks that restrict overnight parking in some cases.

I would think the chances of being moved on at this spot are very limited, and the farmer may have had earlier experience with thoughtless people overnighting.

I have only once been advised that I should not be parking overnight, and it was acceptable to the complainant just to acknowledge politely what was said and promise to move on in the morning ...

Hi yes, we got the spot from the POI's and there were a few signs the length of the road.

 

[Jazzbow]

If you'd like to get back to me when you've read it, that'd be great hahaha

 

[Pugs]

David it is worse than you think.

After 400+ FOI requests to councils and other authorities the range of things you can get a PCN for is frightening.

You cannot remain in your parked car for longer than it takes to park it or remove it from a parking bay.
You cannot run you engine except to move the vehicle.
You cannot raise your voice. or sound your horn.
Where you display your parking ticket is stated. This varies from authority to authority.
One authority even states a 30cm max overhang front or rear. This authority also has restricted parking bay size to 4.8m by 2.4m.
Weight limits of 1,525kg or 2,000kg apply in a lot of car parks. The majority have 3,000kg to 3,500kg limits. Not often visible on entry
York City bans any vehicle equipped for sleeping from any of its city car parks 24/7, even if it fits under the height barrier and fits into a marked bay. You have to use the out of town P&R sites and they are restricted to day use only. This is termed wrong type of vehicle.
Wrong type of vehicle applies to many car parks. it is also applied to Coach and Lorry parking as well as disabled bays.
One authority even stated its car parks are provided for local residents, not for visitors.
In some trailers are banned. In others the trailer must be attached ao all times but two tickets purchased, however this authority banned a vehicle that overhung its bays from purchasing an extra ticket. Another insisted that the trailer must be detached and treated as a separate vehicle.

There is little provision for vehicles over 6m long and between 3,500kg and 7,000kg.

This is unbelievable, i'm glad i moved up to Scotland. I believe the Highland Council are in the process of removing 'No overnight parking' signs...

 

[antiquesam]

I'm afraid Councils take whatever opportunity they can to exert power. It was in Winchester where the Leader has resigned for allowing a developer, who had won a Tender, to develop a large slice of this beautiful town to remove most of the public amenities, the number of affordable houses and the structure of the buildings without putting the contract out to tender again, but, like most Councillors he thought he had the power to do as his party wished. It was only intense public protest that got it sent for approval, where the development was described as being not in keeping even for an industrial estate.

 

[izwozral]

Slightly off topic but why do the Highways Agency erect 'Maintained by the Highway Agency' signs along motorways? This seems to me a great waste of money, man power & smacks of self aggrandisement not to mention adding an already proliferation of of road signs.

 

[Deleted member 967]

The Highways Agency signs have a phone number for you to report problems. They are not advertising.

 

[izwozral]

The Highways Agency signs have a phone number for you to report problems. They are not advertising.

I am pretty sure they don't John but for the life of me I can't find one on the net to show the ones I mean. I think they have a website in small lettering at the bottom which is a bit silly when you are driving past at 60-70 mph. They were every couple of miles or so on the M6 going through the Lakes heading up to Carlisle, to be honest I can't remember spotting this particular sign elsewhere.

 

[st3v3]

I am pretty sure they don't John but for the life of me I can't find one on the net to show the ones I mean. I think they have a website in small lettering at the bottom which is a bit silly when you are driving past at 60-70 mph. They were every couple of miles or so on the M6 going through the Lakes heading up to Carlisle, to be honest I can't remember spotting this particular sign elsewhere.

This?

UK County Spends $140K on Road Ownership Signs

 

[izwozral]

This?

UK County Spends $140K on Road Ownership Signs

That's the one. Thanks. The article just about says it all.

 

[Deleted member 967]

Thanks David Dyslexia rules.

 

[Deleted member 967]

I have just had a quick read but all seems to be as before with a few new signs defined. There is still only one sign relating to "Caravans drawn by a motor vehicle & Motor Caravan" Parking as before, that sign shows where parking is permitted. There again is no prescribed sign banning Motor Caravans.

I will now have to contact DfT to check if the "No Waiting" sign (Sign R) will still be applicable as an approved sign. (A sign given approval by the Secretary of State)

There is still no provision for motorhome dump signs despite it being recommended for inclusion, or any Motor Caravan prescribed signage. This is still only a draft and things could have changed before it is implemented.

I have only had a quick read so I will have to go through it when I get more time.

David. North Berwick certainly weren't embarrassed when confirming that the signs they had erected had no legal backing.

 

[maureenandtom]

Now, now... let's have no more talk like that around here.

Before you know it this thread will be swamped with inane conversations about beer.

And before the country's leading authority on ... well, on everything really, has a chance to comment:

this is what the East Lothian council told me it is relying on. We, the council, can do whaever we want - and here's the proof.

Local Government in Scotland Act 2003

I never did reply to East Lothian council.

Now, about that beer...?

 

[Debroos]

Now, now... let's have no more talk like that around here.

Before you know it this thread will be swamped with inane conversations about beer.

And before the country's leading authority on ... well, on everything really, has a chance to comment:

this is what the East Lothian council told me it is relying on. We, the council, can do whaever we want - and here's the proof.

Local Government in Scotland Act 2003

I never did reply to East Lothian council.

Now, about that beer...?

Doesn't that mean the council has to look after our well being too?

 

[alcam]

[No message]

 

[Jazzbow]

I emailed Northumbria national Park:
Hi there, under the Freedom of information Act 2000 I would like if you could provide me with a copy of the legislation or by-law which makes overnight stays/ camping in the park illegal, and the penalties involved.
I come from Scotland where the law is slightly different, the signage needs to state the above, yours doesn’t.
Thanks in advance
Dawn


Response:
The main purpose of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act (right to roam) was to create a statutory right of access on foot to certain types of open land. Additionally, it made changes to the law governing public rights of way and strengthened nature conservation legislation.

I’ve attached a couple of links below to the legislation

https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-right-to-roam Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000



This legislation came in to effect in Northumberland National Park in 2005 and unfortunately provisions were not made within the Act to allow wild camping. As such, there remains no statutory right to wild camp in England and Wales, without the express permission of the landowner. Though it's “usually” unlikely to happen in remote areas, a landowner would be perfectly entitled to ask you to move on, which unfortunately you found to be the case.



This new legislation does seem to have missed a trick south of the border because it also does not give a right to cycle, horse ride, fish etc etc and again permission for these has to be obtained from the landowner.



I hope this helps to explain and that you enjoyed your visit to the National Park despite this.


I then emailed and asked if I'd be breaking the law if I didn't move on, her response:

I suppose in effect it could be classed as trespass and it would be for the landowner to take it further (not that likely I would hope as northumbrian’s are a friendly bunch).

 

[Deleted member 967]

This was announced just as parliament was about to be dissolved. I have responded to the consultaion pointing out the lack of parking provision for vehicles over 6m. Height Barrier problems. and stressing that there is a difference between Parking and Camping which many authorities do not recognise. The more we respond to these issues the better.

There is no real acknowledgment that Motor Caravans as vehicles exist, in Road Traffic law. No mention in the Highway Code and there is no definitive recognition in legislation regarding speed etc. We are left to guess if they are governed by passenger vehicle legislation or that of goods vehicles.