Accorging to the law we are all Gypsies

[Deleted member 967]

According to the law we are all Gypsies

From the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

“gipsies” means persons of nomadic habit of life, whatever their race or origin, but does not include members of an organised group of travelling showmen, or persons engaged in travelling circuses, travelling together as such. ”.

As full timers we engage in a nomadic habit of life. I am not a showman or part of a circus.

77 Power of local authority to direct unauthorised campers to leave land.E+W
(1)If it appears to a local authority that persons are for the time being residing in a vehicle or vehicles within that authority’s area—
(a) on any land forming part of a highway;
(b) on any other unoccupied land; or
(c) on any occupied land without the consent of the occupier,
the authority may give a direction that those persons and any others with them are to leave the land and remove the vehicle or vehicles and any other property they have with them on the land.

and a person may be regarded for the purposes of this section as residing on any land not withstanding that he has a home elsewhere.

Now we know where we stand.

John

 

[landyrubbertramp]

i per say dont have a problem with that, it does not bother me what the state wish to label me as. as long as im respectful and feel like im being a good citizen to other ppl

 

[Smaug]

i per say dont have a problem with that, it does not bother me what the state wish to label me as. as long as im respectful and feel like im being a good citizen to other ppl

I think John is making the point that the Police have the powers to choose to not treat us respectfully.

I also read that as including people just away for the weekend & choosing to live the "nomadic lifestyle" on a temporary basis when they own a residence elsewhere. These laws have been designed as a "catch all" to deal with a perceived "Gypsy problem", but may be applied when the travellers are not creating a problem, or on other persons not normally viewed as "undesirable" simply because they are not currently resident in a fixed residence.

Such laws are handy for the Police & Courts because they can be applied in many different ways & in situations for which they were never intended. But they severely erode all our freedoms.

 

[n brown]

the vagrancy act makes it illegal to 'wander abroad' and to 'sleep abroad. ' which covers walking about,especially at night,and sleeping in the open. the obstruction laws make it potentially illegal to stand anywhere.

 

[ricc]

so the "authority" can direct you to leave
what happens if you ignore the direction?
is any council employee authorised to issue the direction on behalf of the council or only specific officers? or does there have to be a council meeting and a majority vote to issue the direction? bet the guy on the ground dont know the answeres

 

[Channa]

When I returned from France 2011 I was classed as a gypsy by the unemployement peeps and had to be interviewed ( thats a thread in itself).

Over the course of my travels met a lot of Gypsies who are like anyone else , theres good uns and wrong uns.

As Kimbo will testify I ended up working travelling fairs, loved it actually especially Valentines in Leeds. The Showmen distance themselves, so there is a bit of prejudice even within travellers.

We had issues with travellers at a fair in Wakefield, Gypsy youngsters whod spent their brass and got a little boisterous,.......what I found strange is to me they werent travellers lived on a caravan site resided in Caravans which hadnt moved an inch in years.....hardly travelling?

Last pub I had, I was told I was crackers for taking it on Parry Lane Tavern in Bradford, because there was a lot of trouble with the Gypsies.

Early days an elder ( who truth beknown had little time for the youngsters) got into a chat with me and could see my lifestyle in the past had mirrored theirs..His parting words, you wont have any trouble ...???

So perhaps there is advantage to being a gypsy ???......

Channa

 

[Channa]

the vagrancy act makes it illegal to 'wander abroad' and to 'sleep abroad. ' which covers walking about,especially at night,and sleeping in the open. the obstruction laws make it potentially illegal to stand anywhere.

and a map of the London underground in your diary is sufficient for detention under anti terrorism laws

Channa

 

[torwood]

I think John is making the point that the Police have the powers to choose to not treat us respectfully.

• The police should treat everyone respectfully and normally apply common sense, it's only when you get awkward that they will change their approach.
• The responsibility for illegal camping lies with the Local Authority to negotiate and move on illegal campers or with the owner of land if the camping is on private land. On cost grounds they seldom have an enforcement arm working out of hours!
• The local authority may provide owners of private land advisory support and encouragement to resolve issues that cause public concern.
• police powers relate principally to public roads and criminal misconduct and not civil law, although a partnership approach is followed and they would likely be on hand to enforce breaches of criminal law as and when the private landowner / Local authority take enforcement action, this also acts as a 'brake' on Local Authorities abuse of process.

 

[Bushtrekker]

That makes us a minority group

Should be good for a few brownie points under the human rights legislation :lol-053:

 

[Deleted member 24143]

“gipsies” means persons of nomadic habit of life, whatever their race or origin, but does not include members of an organised group of travelling showmen, or persons engaged in travelling circuses, travelling together as such. ”.


When travelling with other motorhomers, carry a set of juggling balls and your now a showman. Problem solved

 

[mariesnowgoose]

“gipsies” means persons of nomadic habit of life, whatever their race or origin, but does not include members of an organised group of travelling showmen, or persons engaged in travelling circuses, travelling together as such. ”.


When travelling with other motorhomers, carry a set of juggling balls and your now a showman. Problem solved

The way I drive, Neil's balls are always juggling about! :lol-049::lol-061:

 

[Bushtrekker]

Trust you...

to lower the tone xxx

 

[Bushtrekker]

Cross my palm with silver...

...and I'll tell your fortune. If you don't I'll push lucky white heather through your letter box

 

[vwalan]

you have the same rights to try it . these days most m,home owners do trash the place .leave crap every where . leave rubbish in heaps . thats why m,homers are having grief . easy to be flippant on here but look around and you will see its true . do you ever talk to a real gypsie i would say real gypsies dont leave a mess . they come round year after year and can be very trusty friends.

 

[Deleted member 967]

I think John is making the point that the Police have the powers to choose to not treat us respectfully.

I also read that as including people just away for the weekend & choosing to live the "nomadic lifestyle" on a temporary basis when they own a residence elsewhere. These laws have been designed as a "catch all" to deal with a perceived "Gypsy problem", but may be applied when the travellers are not creating a problem, or on other persons not normally viewed as "undesirable" simply because they are not currently resident in a fixed residence.

Such laws are handy for the Police & Courts because they can be applied in many different ways & in situations for which they were never intended. But they severely erode all our freedoms.

What I meant was in the eyes of the lawmakers, we all are the perceived "Gypsy problem". We are no different to any other person who chooses to live the "nomadic lifestyle" full time or casually. The 1960 Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act tried to force people onto caravan sites, instead of wild parking. The 1986 Amendment to that Act made it compulsory for local authorities to provide sites for travellers. The local authorities didn't comply and where they did provide sites they didn't allocate sites for the nomads, as they tried to get them leave the road and settle. The 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act removed this requirement.

We know how nice it is to enjoy the freedom they hankered after, Why do people want everyone to conform to their perceived standards and treat others that don't as below them.

I have lived near gypsies both travellers and settled most of my life. I have had no problems with or from them.

My Great grandfather used to overwinter Irish travellers on his land. My mother knew the descendants of these people and I brought up to respect them as I would any other person. I had Irish traveller in my class at school when they were in the area. When I worked in the dole office I saw how travellers were being treated differently to other claimants. I sorted that out by quoting the codes of conduct that we had to comply with, to the other staff and management.

I have now taken to living the nomadic lifestyle myself, preferring to use sites only when I have to. I am no better or worse than any other person.

We need to cooperate with fellow travellers not distance ourselves from them. The same laws apply to all of us.

John

 

[Channa]

“gipsies” means persons of nomadic habit of life, whatever their race or origin, but does not include members of an organised group of travelling showmen, or persons engaged in travelling circuses, travelling together as such. ”.


When travelling with other motorhomers, carry a set of juggling balls and your now a showman. Problem solved

Great idea, but serious money involved joining the showmans guild

Probably better of as a weekend warrior pal
Channa

 

[Tow Itch]

Channa

You had the Parry Lane Tavern, how long ago? Dropped into there once or twice but I'm going back 21 to 24 years. You had the static gypsies just down the road from you. The council in their wisdom sighting them across the road from three massive scrap yards. (You couldn't make stuff like this up) I worked in a couple of pubs on the Leeds Road near Laisterdyke. Never having worked in city pubs before I must say it was an education. Did the periodic gypsy invasions of the area continue after the early nineties. You always get the mouth on a stick locals but the sudden arrival of large numbers of gypsies brassed off some decent locals. Especially with what was done to the area, considering it was no flower garden to begin with.

 

[Deleted member 2636]

so the "authority" can direct you to leave
what happens if you ignore the direction?
is any council employee authorised to issue the direction on behalf of the council or only specific officers? or does there have to be a council meeting and a majority vote to issue the direction? bet the guy on the ground dont know the answeres

If you ignore a "lawful" request then you may be arrested by the Police.
Eventually you might even have your "day in Court" where you will be able to argue the rights and wrongs of what has happened to you
Good luck because going down the "I know my rights, it's a free country" route inevitably
hacks off the forces of Babylon
If you are asked to "move on" then it is best to comply

 

[Channa]

Channa

You had the Parry Lane Tavern, how long ago? Dropped into there once or twice but I'm going back 21 to 24 years. You had the static gypsies just down the road from you. The council in their wisdom sighting them across the road from three massive scrap yards. (You couldn't make stuff like this up) I worked in a couple of pubs on the Leeds Road near Laisterdyke. Never having worked in city pubs before I must say it was an education. Did the periodic gypsy invasions of the area continue after the early nineties. You always get the mouth on a stick locals but the sudden arrival of large numbers of gypsies brassed off some decent locals. Especially with what was done to the area, considering it was no flower garden to begin with.

I was there until February this year, I only looked after it for 6 months our company caretaking it for another cpmpany who in turn were working on behalf of receivers.

The land lady now had the Furnace which has closed.

There are no pubs now on Leeds Road heading towards Pudsey, The Flyer, Waggon and Horses all gone.

The PLT was an interesting pub and was originally a "temperance " tavern, who went bang in 1903. and has a very interesting interior discovered 12 years ago when refurbed.

The Gypsy sites you refer too, are still there, in fact it was one of the elders there that ensured I had no trouble.

My current charge is the White Horse in Gomersal if you know it ? unfortunately its a distress management job again which is a pity large car park beer Garden unlike the Parry

Btw the Stickler has gone too

Channa

 

[Tow Itch]

Live many miles from the area now. A M/C club I'm a member of meets in the Marsh at Cleckuddlesfax. Not been for several months, might pop on for a 1/2 of shandy next time I go.