solar panel research - daily amp useage

thegoodlookingbloke said:
Why do you think the government doesn't lay fields of solar panels to feed into the national grid as they do in equatorial countries instead they use much more expensive wind turbines.

The clue is somewhere in there...see if you can work it out. :dance:
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The clue is in the fact that the wind generating companies have the government on their back pocket and the turbines going up all over the place are in response to greed, not green power.
We have big windmills installed near us that have barely turned in over 5 years ! Keep a lookout for yourselves, you'll see what I mean.

If solar is so bad in the UK, why are lots of people rushing to have panels installed on their homes? It must work, or why bother with the outlay in the first instance?
Even with the government grants that have been available, they're still relatively expensive, initially.

And surely solar technology is improving all the time anyway, giving us a choice of better and cheaper panels?

I'm sorry that you have fallen out with maingate and have announced that you're leaving the forum.
You really shouldn't take things too personally, it's never worth it, they're only words. :)

Anyway, I would have been interested to see the discussion develop into something more worthwhile, like the pros and cons of solar and why you don't think it works. :idea:

And Jim - you naughty tinker; you know not everybody can handle Geordie plain speaking all the time!
Gerra way back in the dog hoose til yer dinner's ready, lad! :lol-061:
 
Just like to say that my daughter and her husband have solar panels on their roof at home and they have significantly reduced their fuel bills. I have a solar panel on my motorhome (and did on the previous one) and will definitely be getting a solar panel fitted to the next one as well. I may be in Spain at present but they are efficient enough for my purposes when in England on all but the gloomiest of days. Can't comment on the technical stuff but if it keeps the lights, pumps, computer etc running without ever having to run the engine then that is good enough for me.
 
I have 21 x 185 watts panels 3.885 kws on my roof. Just coming to the end of our second year next week since they were installed so I get the higher tariff. Earnings from the FIT's first year £1533, second year £1467 (it's been a bad year) & reduced our electrical consumption by half despite us changing from gas cooking to electric. On course to recover the outlay cost in less than 8 years, return on our initial cost is averaging 11.54%.
 
Well. That was a short conversation. What a pity. Goes to show that we need to be careful how we say things and try to use a tone of 'voice' that won't drive people away. What sounds jokey in one's own head may feel terribly hurtful to someone else. And people can read text from different positions, taking offence where none was intended depending on what's going on for them at the time. If offence was actually intended by anyone in this thread, they might like to reflect a bit - if in doubt about what the other person means, ask them, be patient, accept that people's experiences are different and they're likely to hold different views from yours. I also think it's best not to scoot off before a communication problem is solved, but maybe that's just me.

Anyway...

I came back to this thread to say that the "cost-effectiveness" argument only matters when you have another option for comparison. When you don't have another option you take what you can get. Without electric hook-up available my investment in solar panels is both necessary and worthwhile, whatever the cost (up to a point, but I haven't reached it - investment of under £200 has saved at least 5 hook-ups @ £20 locally - I'll be ahead within weeks!). Without a bit of daily power for water, some lights, some phone charging, I'd be lost. I don't have the option to use a windmill in my van. In my situation the cost-effectiveness argument reduces to a case of simple effectiveness - solar power works for me, here, now... and it's saving me money. Nothing not to like.
 
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Why can't you use a windmill Jo?

There are some tiny ones ideal for vans and small holdings which I thought would be great for the Orkneys and generating some extra power when the sun isn't shining. I think Maingate uses one from time to time to supplement his solar.
 
Yes Jojo, a windmill would be a good investment where you are I would think.

Mine is rated at 80 watts (Rutland 504) but you need a lot of wind to get near that. They are expensive to buy new but you will probably get one of ebay secondhand for a fraction of the price.

A much better bet would be one of the 300 watt jobs from China. They sell for around £180 online but you will need a bigger regulator probably.

Also, if you are static at the moment, it would be better to remove your solar panels so that you can angle towards the Sun for an increased output.
 
maingate said:
Yes Jojo, a windmill would be a good investment where you are I would think.

Mine is rated at 80 watts (Rutland 504) but you need a lot of wind to get near that. They are expensive to buy new but you will probably get one of ebay secondhand for a fraction of the price.

A much better bet would be one of the 300 watt jobs from China. They sell for around £180 online but you will need a bigger regulator probably.

Also, if you are static at the moment, it would be better to remove your solar panels so that you can angle towards the Sun for an increased output.
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What is the physical size of these wind turbines? and how quiet/noisy are they? I've just spent a night up at the lighthouse at Ardnamurchan point and that one though much larger kept me awake.
 
sparrks said:
What is the physical size of these wind turbines? and how quiet/noisy are they? I've just spent a night up at the lighthouse at Ardnamurchan point and that one though much larger kept me awake.
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My Rutland 504 is virtually silent. The blade diameter is about 75 cm.

The 300 watt model I mentioned is just over 1 metre diameter but will not be as quiet as it has a different blade design. It should put a reasonable charge at lower wind speeds though.
 
No, they were given full go ahead and erected several years ago.
We live in a windy area - hence why they were built there in the first place, obviously.
They are rarely turning, even when we have gale force winds! It's quite disgraceful, actually.

Several of my friends have noticed a similar situation with other wind turbines throughout the North East.

To be honest, I keep meaning to get onto whoever is responsible to demand an explanation about why so many turbines are not being used properly, but haven't got round to it yet :)

Remember, this is the UK I'm talking about, not France!

Do you somehow think that my remarks are "made up", or perhaps you think I'm badly misinformed about the area I live in and don't know any better...?! ;)

By gum, Win, you can be a touch on the patronising side sometimes... :lol-061: :lol-049:
 
They have just removed all the turbines at Blyth Harbour. They were rarely in use as well but it was down to lawyers arguing who was responsible for a damaged cable (or cables). They are now putting up a couple of huge ones instead.

I would have bought one of the old ones but it would not fit in the garage. :idea:
 
Firefox said:
Why can't you use a windmill Jo?
There are some tiny ones ideal for vans and small holdings which I thought would be great for the Orkneys and generating some extra power when the sun isn't shining. I think Maingate uses one from time to time to supplement his solar.
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Nice thought... but I'm in a world heritage site and no windmills are permitted within a mile or two. I'll look into having a little one on the van if my solar panels don't match or exceed consumption when I've switched to LEDs and independent wireless. I have no idea where on the van it might work - will look into it, thanks (and to Maingate too) for the suggestion.

maingate said:
Yes Jojo, a windmill would be a good investment where you are I would think.
Mine is rated at 80 watts (Rutland 504) but you need a lot of wind to get near that.
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Apparently the wind on my bit of coast often comes ashore at 100mph or more - enough, d'you think? ; )
I originally bought a caravan to park on the site while I build but it's impractical. It's sitting behind someone else's house, nicely protected, but it still needs tying down with six buckets of big rocks (about 2 tons in each). A caravan in the nearby car park rolled across two fields uphill, something I'd like to avoid.
I don't have a windbreak-building and the caravan would need moving around during building, so would be a pain. Bought the motorhome so when the wind blows I can go and hide in town, on the lea side of the island.

maingate said:
They are expensive to buy new but you will probably get one of ebay secondhand for a fraction of the price.
A much better bet would be one of the 300 watt jobs from China. They sell for around £180 online but you will need a bigger regulator probably.
Also, if you are static at the moment, it would be better to remove your solar panels so that you can angle towards the Sun for an increased output.
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I'm not really static, so a windmill may be difficult to manage, and the panels need to come with me on the road - I hope be travel about the UK and Ireland in the coming year, visiting friends that full-time work has prevented me from seeing for years (yay to slackerdom - though I do need a job!). I see your point but having spent a good couple of days with my dad bolting them on so no-one can nick them, they're staying put!

But all this learning will come in handy if life takes a different course. I can see fantastic possibilities for living independently of costly services - mostly thanks to input from people on this website. Thanks, guys (inc gals)!
 
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mariesnowgoose said:
No, they were given full go ahead and erected several years ago.
We live in a windy area - hence why they were built there in the first place, obviously.
They are rarely turning, even when we have gale force winds! It's quite disgraceful, actually.

Several of my friends have noticed a similar situation with other wind turbines throughout the North East.

To be honest, I keep meaning to get onto whoever is responsible to demand an explanation about why so many turbines are not being used properly, but haven't got round to it yet :)

Remember, this is the UK I'm talking about, not France!

Do you somehow think that my remarks are "made up", or perhaps you think I'm badly misinformed about the area I live in and don't know any better...?! ;)

By gum, Win, you can be a touch on the patronising side sometimes... :lol-061: :lol-049:
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The downside with wind turbines are that they can be turned on and off easily unlike a conventional or nuclear power station, so that when the demand drops it's the green energy generators that are taken out of use and are switched back on when demand increases assuming conditions are right for their operation.
 
sparrks said:
The downside with wind turbines are that they can be turned on and off easily unlike a conventional or nuclear power station, so that when the demand drops it's the green energy generators that are taken out of use and are switched back on when demand increases assuming conditions are right for their operation.
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Does that mean they're not that efficient then?
Seriously, ours hardly ever turn, which suggests to me that there's either no demand for their power - hence they're expensive white elephants - or they're not working properly at all?
Conditions are usually perfect here, it's windy nearly all of the time ;)
 
mariesnowgoose said:
Does that mean they're not that efficient then?
Seriously, ours hardly ever turn, which suggests to me that there's either no demand for their power - hence they're expensive white elephants - or they're not working properly at all?
Conditions are usually perfect here, it's windy nearly all of the time ;)
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I don't know how efficient they are. However you can't turn on and off a coal fired powerstation at will, but you can a turbine, I'm only guessing it make take half a day or more to bring a coal fired powerstation online.
It would appear that the turbines are an expensive way of producing electricity and not very reliable.
Take Cruachan Power Station for example this hydro station isn't very green, but it can be bought up to full generating power in seconds which is perfect for power demand surges, well worth a visit if you're in that part of Scotland. Visit Cruachan
 
Hmm. Must have been feeling a bit tired and tetchy, Win ;)
Are you buying me a new Harley, then? ! lol

Actually, I really must make the effort to look into why the turbines aren't working - it's been bugging me for long enough.

Seriously, I can just about count on the fingers of one hand the number of times they have been turning.
They can sit for weeks on end with no movement at all. Very odd.

The sculptures in the photos are at the Thornley Woods wildlife centre between Rowlands Gill and Winlaton Mill, about a 5 minute drive from the A1 Western Bypass (Metro Shopping Centre fame) on the A694 road to Consett.

Thornley Woods was the place where Red Kites were re-introduced to the North East.
I used to roam all around that area with my friends when I was a kid before it was "sanitised" into a country park.
 
OK away with all the bickering it does no one any good. back to the OP. 25-30 amp/hours a day does not seem enough to me. On a cold wet windy winters day you want to be warm and snug inside, now you may not use much TV but I'll bet the laptop or laptops are on in place of them. The eberspacher alone could use your estimate let alone anything else. One battery will NOT cope. you need lots of storage for the power you can harvest when the sun shines and in the winter when the sun is low in the sky the output from a panel flat on the roof will really struggle. whereas a vertical one stuck in your window facing south will treble the output of the flat one.
I have the following setup
1 x 80W panel on the roof charging 2 x 110 amp/hr batteries, which are also charged via a split charge relay when on the move.
These power the main habitation including electric step, electric overcab bed raising and lowering, lights, water pump and the solenoid that switches the gas on. We struggle in the winter.
The second 80W panel is vertical in the front window when parked and facing south charges a further 2 110 amp/hr batteries, these are not charged from the engine at all. They power the TV and sat system, 4.25 amp per hour draw. in the summer we can use the TV or laptop without restriction and always 6 hrs TV a night. In the winter we struggle, just had 10 days away and at times was restricted to 2 hours TV a night but it was dull and overcast most of the time. a Further 80W panel switchable between both banks is ready for installation.
conclusion the summer is no problem, Europe, no problem but UK especially the further north you go requires more batteries and more solars in the winter. Adding a wind genny for the winter also helps.
we always camp off grid have managed for years. I carried a genny for four years and never used it. the only use I have for it now is to power lights in the marquee when we have a rally, though managed with LEDs last time.
The winter is your biggest challenge you will need heating on at times 24/7 and when it comes to amp/hrs thats best part of a tidy bit, hee hee. People do manage but not many in the UK.
 
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