Whitby again tro

yorkslass

yorkslass

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hi i"ve just noticed some new signs that seem to say that a temporary order has been put in place to stop motorhomes parking between 11pm and 7am. i knew this was in the pipeline but wasn"t aware that they could initiate a temporary order. i also wondered how enforceable the signs are . they are printed on a4 sheets put inside see through wallets and fastended to a couple of lamposts with plastic cable ties, they hav"nt put them with existing signs. your thoughts appreciated.
 
Hi, as far as I am aware a tro, if properly done is legally enforceable, to the extent that motors may be subject to confiscation under certain circumstances. unfortunate, but if Whitby doesn't want certain visitors they have a legal right (though IMO not a moral right) to place a TRO
 
Isn't it so stupid. Do they think that campers will go to camp sites - I think not, they will just clear off to a much more welcoming place.
 
Just back from whitby but stayed on bluebank for a night did not see these signs but i wassant looking for them did notice that the whitby reggata is also on this weekend and lots of roads are going to be closed and no parking. noticed new sign at a poi wildcamping spot at robin hoods bay is now a no parking or stopping now.
 
oldish hippy said:
is this because whitby folk festival this weekend so town will be busier than normal
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I think you may be right. Temporary orders are often used for festivals/fairs/carnivals/farmers markets etc. - and provided that they are temporary then councils do not need to go through the rigorous procedure that is needed to establish a permanent TRO. But it is worth keeping an eye on to see if they disappear (as they should) after the festival.
 
John H said:
I think you may be right. Temporary orders are often used for festivals/fairs/carnivals/farmers markets etc. - and provided that they are temporary then councils do not need to go through the rigorous procedure that is needed to establish a permanent TRO. But it is worth keeping an eye on to see if they disappear (as they should) after the festival.
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this is not a temporary sign. now that i have stopped fuming i have written it down word for word. NYCC.temporary prohibition of waiting by motorcaravans between 11pm and 7am[north terrace whitby]order2012no194. road traffic regulation act1984 sec14[1] [as ammended]. NYCC has made an order which will prohibit the waiting of motorcaravans between the hours of 11pm and 7am each day from 13/8/2012_ 22/1/2014 on n terrace whitby in the borough of scarborough for environmental reasons to prevent occupants of motorcaravans depositing waste on the highway. the restrictions will be put into effect by notices and signs dated 10 /8. the new order is between 11 and seven but the existing signs are between 11 and 6. the signs are so small you need glasses to read them. interestingly the temporary signs for the folk week and regatta are at least four times as big. as they stand would you think they are enforceable?
 
I wouldn't hve thought they were enforcable or even done by the council.

We are in the procss of having a restriction order on parking on Brandon market place and although the tro has been passed and signed and sealed. The council has stated that they are not enforcible until the proper signs can be made and installed. I should think the same law goes for any part of the country.
why not ring your local councillor and ask wht it is ll about??
 
yorkslass said:
this is not a temporary sign. now that i have stopped fuming i have written it down word for word. NYCC.temporary prohibition of waiting by motorcaravans between 11pm and 7am[north terrace whitby]order2012no194. road traffic regulation act1984 sec14[1] [as ammended]. NYCC has made an order which will prohibit the waiting of motorcaravans between the hours of 11pm and 7am each day from 13/8/2012_ 22/1/2014 on n terrace whitby in the borough of scarborough for environmental reasons to prevent occupants of motorcaravans depositing waste on the highway. the restrictions will be put into effect by notices and signs dated 10 /8. the new order is between 11 and seven but the existing signs are between 11 and 6. the signs are so small you need glasses to read them. interestingly the temporary signs for the folk week and regatta are at least four times as big. as they stand would you think they are enforceable?
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Ah, I see now; the "temporary" bit refers to the period from 13/8/12 to 22/1/14 - this is clearly intended to be an experimental period. As to whether or not it is enforceable, that depends on the procedure they went through to establish it. From the wording you quote it looks as if they have - but to be sure you would need to ask the local council to show you a full copy of the order (and the minutes of the meetings, public consultation etc).
 
John H said:
Ah, I see now; the "temporary" bit refers to the period from 13/8/12 to 22/1/14 - this is clearly intended to be an experimental period. As to whether or not it is enforceable, that depends on the procedure they went through to establish it. From the wording you quote it looks as if they have - but to be sure you would need to ask the local council to show you a full copy of the order (and the minutes of the meetings, public consultation etc).
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think that duration of whitby folk festival please dont quote me on that
 
Scratch Whitby of my visit list. Flamborough Head and Bempton are much nicer anyway
 
John H said:
Ah, I see now; the "temporary" bit refers to the period from 13/8/12 to 22/1/14 - this is clearly intended to be an experimental period. As to whether or not it is enforceable, that depends on the procedure they went through to establish it. From the wording you quote it looks as if they have - but to be sure you would need to ask the local council to show you a full copy of the order (and the minutes of the meetings, public consultation etc).
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hi what i was concerned about was if it could be enforced without putting up permanent signs. as i mentioned before they are on pieces of a4 paper inside plastic see through wallets and fastened with cable ties. the temporary signs for the regatta are four times the size and clearly displayed.
 
yorkslass said:
hi what i was concerned about was if it could be enforced without putting up permanent signs. as i mentioned before they are on pieces of a4 paper inside plastic see through wallets and fastened with cable ties. the temporary signs for the regatta are four times the size and clearly displayed.
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All road signs must either be prescribed under the Road Traffic Regulation Act of 1984 or, in the case of non-prescribed signs, be individually authorised by the Secretary of State. So, without actually seeing the signs and without contacting the council to see whether their signs have been authorised, I'm afraid this cannot be answered. Having said that, I would suspect that A4 paper inside plastic wallets probably doesn't qualify!
 
Whitby TRO

This may answer a few questions, found this on the Whitby Gazette site


Published on Thursday 28 June 2012 12:54

A PARKING area which allows the overnight camping of motorhomes is being designated in Whitby for a one year trial.

If there are no objections the scheme could start next week and see motorhomes and campers being legally allowed to park up overnight at the Marina Back car park for a charge of £10 per night.

Scarborough Borough Council (SBC) has admitted that the current controls and legislations are ineffective and the new suggestion comes from a review group set up specifically to deal with the council’s car parking operations.

A report with the recommendation of a specific site for motorhomes was discussed at a meeting yesterday but the final decision will rest with a senior council officer.

If there are no objections to the proposals they will be implemented from Wednesday.

Motorhomes will be charged the £10 fee to park at the car park, towards the rear of the Co-op, between the hours of 11pm and 7am.

Between those same times motorhomes will also be banned from parking at the following car parks - Pavilion top and drive, West Cliff, Church Street, Endeavour Wharf and Marina front.

The move follows restrictions which, recently confirmed by North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC), which limits motor homes and campers from parking on selected streets in and around Whitby such as Sandsend Beach front, North Promenade, east terrace, Royal Crescent and Church Street.

New signs outlining the amended Traffic Regulation Order have been ordered after SBC admitted that the previous rules were ineffective.

It said: “The difficulty with enforcement is proving that the motor caravan is occupied overnight, this coupled with lack of signage results in the current restrictions being ineffective.”

Similar procedures are set to be put in place in Scarborough and Filey.

SBC added the parking review group has discussed motor caravan parking at length over the past three years and have been joined in their concern about the level of this activity by local traders and residents but had also had correspondence from owners of motorhomes who want dedicated provision without constraints.
 
iceman1956 said:
This may answer a few questions, found this on the Whitby Gazette site


Published on Thursday 28 June 2012 12:54

A PARKING area which allows the overnight camping of motorhomes is being designated in Whitby for a one year trial.

If there are no objections the scheme could start next week and see motorhomes and campers being legally allowed to park up overnight at the Marina Back car park for a charge of £10 per night.

Scarborough Borough Council (SBC) has admitted that the current controls and legislations are ineffective and the new suggestion comes from a review group set up specifically to deal with the council’s car parking operations.

A report with the recommendation of a specific site for motorhomes was discussed at a meeting yesterday but the final decision will rest with a senior council officer.

If there are no objections to the proposals they will be implemented from Wednesday.

Motorhomes will be charged the £10 fee to park at the car park, towards the rear of the Co-op, between the hours of 11pm and 7am.

Between those same times motorhomes will also be banned from parking at the following car parks - Pavilion top and drive, West Cliff, Church Street, Endeavour Wharf and Marina front.

The move follows restrictions which, recently confirmed by North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC), which limits motor homes and campers from parking on selected streets in and around Whitby such as Sandsend Beach front, North Promenade, east terrace, Royal Crescent and Church Street.

New signs outlining the amended Traffic Regulation Order have been ordered after SBC admitted that the previous rules were ineffective.

It said: “The difficulty with enforcement is proving that the motor caravan is occupied overnight, this coupled with lack of signage results in the current restrictions being ineffective.”

Similar procedures are set to be put in place in Scarborough and Filey.

SBC added the parking review group has discussed motor caravan parking at length over the past three years and have been joined in their concern about the level of this activity by local traders and residents but had also had correspondence from owners of motorhomes who want dedicated provision without constraints.
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It therefore looks as if the A4 paper signs have been put up while the new signs are being ordered. In effect, that probably means there is no legal signage at present and enforcement can only happen after the new signs arrive. If I am right in this, then the council will know they can't enforce until the new signs arrive but are hoping people will be put off by the deterrent effect of the paper signs.
 
I am due to go to Robin Hood's bay 7th September, i saw on a earlier post that MH's are banned from the top car park, can anyone confirm this? its causing me a great deal of stress, just the thought of going on a campsite, i'm happy to pay the £10 on this occassion as my family are staying in a cottage and i want to spend time with them,
 
John H said:
It therefore looks as if the A4 paper signs have been put up while the new signs are being ordered. In effect, that probably means there is no legal signage at present and enforcement can only happen after the new signs arrive. If I am right in this, then the council will know they can't enforce until the new signs arrive but are hoping people will be put off by the deterrent effect of the paper signs.
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Just looked at the councils details for the Marina Back Car Park, vehicles over 1.5 tons should use the designated coach bays, cost to park is a single charge of £15 for 24 hours, so surely if we have paid for 24 hours we can stay overnight at no extra charge ??? Or do they mean they are going to put an extra charge for parking between 11pm & 7am.

They do contradict themselves though, as it states no overnight Sleeping or camping and also parking charges are from 9am to 6pm.

No wonder we get confused as to whether we are parking legally or not !!!!

http://http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=15758
 
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As usual, ill thought out solution from a council, this is what happens when people who do not understand something take advice from "experts" who for the most part know even less, but bluster their way through, generally so full of their own importance, fearfull for theior well paid positions and a hatred or incapability of admitting when they might be wrong, and that others who understand a situation might know better on a given subject.
 
iceman1956 said:
Just looked at the councils details for the Marina Back Car Park, vehicles over 1.5 tons should use the designated coach bays, cost to park is a single charge of £15 for 24 hours, so surely if we have paid for 24 hours we can stay overnight at no extra charge ??? Or do they mean they are going to put an extra charge for parking between 11pm & 7am.

They do contradict themselves though, as it states no overnight Sleeping or camping and also parking charges are from 9am to 6pm.

No wonder we get confused as to whether we are parking legally or not !!!!

http://http://www.scarborough.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=15758
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Hi

There is a world of difference between something that has been done within the law and something that has been done logically! :wacko::lol-053:
 
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