layby fee dodgers

[Northerner]

I agree.

I'd add that in the short time I've been a member of this site, it is obvious that some people just like to engage in a damned good argument and pontificate their opinions no matter what the subject. I deal with this by ignoring their posts. Simples.

Tone

Really, whatever the subject? I for instance 'pontificate' on about two threads as most are of no interest to me. There are many on here who do seem to have an opinion on everything. But I also suspect that when there's a bit of an argument going, that the ones you disagree with are pontificating and those that you agree with are just debating.

But if you really want to know, the really poisonous posts on here are ones like yours and the one that you answered, which are little more than an excuse to have a dig at someone you don't like. You claim to ignore them but do what I think is the really cowardly thing of sniping at them indirectly.

I'm a businessman and the posts I really often get my teeth into are those such as this, where uninformed and unreasonable people make the kind of disgraceful accusations such have been made on this thread. I make no apology for that and will continue to challenge untruths and wild accusations that have no basis in fact.

 

[John H]

If some of these dumb Camp site owners got their act together and provided only a parking area with a central water point and toilet dump for about £5 + and possibly electricity at an extra cost they would find that Motorhomers would probably use their site , we don't want fancy sites we just want somewhere to overnight ,as in the foreign Aires. I realise that some want showers etc well Ok they can have the all singing dancing sites available to them.

A very good point. What campsite owners need to take into account (and some do) is that there are a lot of motorhomers who simply want a piece of tarmac, a freshwater tap and a waste dump (this is why we use CLs rather than campsites). If they charge over £30 per night without any discounts they are not going to get us into their sites. Others, who want showers, electricity, entertainment, swimming pools etc may regard the price as reasonable but the owners of the vans she is complaining about are almost certainly not in that category. A good businessman/woman would understand her potential clients; she fails to do so.

 

[Barbt]

a very good point. What campsite owners need to take into account (and some do) is that there are a lot of motorhomers who simply want a piece of tarmac, a freshwater tap and a waste dump (this is why we use cls rather than campsites). If they charge over £30 per night without any discounts they are not going to get us into their sites. Others, who want showers, electricity, entertainment, swimming pools etc may regard the price as reasonable but the owners of the vans she is complaining about are almost certainly not in that category. A good businessman/woman would understand her potential clients; she fails to do so.

exactly!!!!

 

[Northerner]

If some of these dumb Camp site owners got their act together and provided only a parking area with a central water point and toilet dump for about £5 + and possibly electricity at an extra cost they would find that Motorhomers would probably use their site , we don't want fancy sites we just want somewhere to overnight ,as in the foreign Aires. I realise that some want showers etc well Ok they can have the all singing dancing sites available to them.

Oh God, here we go again! Dumb camp site owners? What about dumb people who can't work out that if you have an amount of land for your site that it is far better to make it into proper pitches and charge the going rate? And your idea then means that every shower block and every toilet would have to be locked and keys issued to everyone. Of course the motorhomers would never use the showers would they when they've only paid a fiver for a pitch with no facilities? Oh yea!

But you perfectly illustrate my point. You have quite clearly not given the slightest thought to the outcome, or cost, or efficacy of your suggestions, but you come on here talking about 'dumb' site owners. What business have you been successful in that gives you the right to accuse site owners of being dumb?

And if you really are happy to pay a small amount for an overnight stop with basic facilities, what's wrong with the thousands of CLs that already exist, something that you will not find in France by the way? And if people aren't willing to use these CLs because of the cost, what makes you think that they'll pay a similar price to camp outside a site on a basic facility?

Why do you feel the need to constantly denigrate people just because they may not provide exactly what you want?

And I've just noticed that we still have people talking about her charging £30 a night. Don't they read the posts? Her site charges £11 in the off-season and a maximum of £18.95 for the high season plus EHU if you want it. And I've explained above why no site owner in Cornwall with half a brain would give up a valuable piece of land to get a third of the revenue that he or she gets from people wanting proper pitches. Is that so hard to work out?

 

[John H]

1........ this then means that every shower block and every toilet would have to be locked and keys issued to everyone.

2. And if you really are happy to pay a small amount for an overnight stop with basic facilities, what's wrong with the thousands of CLs that already exist, something that you will not find in France by the way?

1. There are many campsites in this country that do just that - I have stayed on a few.

2. Yes you do find them in France - they are called aires and most of them are free.

 

[John H]

And I've just noticed that we still have people talking about her charging £30 a night. Don't they read the posts? Her site charges £11 in the off-season and a maximum of £18.95 for the high season plus EHU if you want it. And I've explained above why no site owner in Cornwall with half a brain would give up a valuable piece of land to get a third of the revenue that he or she gets from people wanting proper pitches. Is that so hard to work out?

A family (2 adults and two children) with electric hook-up, a dog and an awning would be charged over £30. But this is an aside - the nonsense in your argument is that IF she was able to fill her site with full-price bookings then what on earth is she complaining about wildcampers for? She claims her occupancy rate is down, so why doesn't she do something to increase it? Is that so hard to work out?

 

[daisymini]

Just a thought?

I don't know how many members on this site own a property with a piece of land but if they did couldn't some sort of club be set up for over nighting for members? If I had a piece of land i would be more than happy to offer and over night stop for any member. Surely it must be possible as our members are spread out all over the country. or am i being unrealistic?

 

[elainekirk]

The problem as I see it is not with site owner but with the BBC who repeatedly assume the code of practice is for the 'others' and that they are a law unto themselves.
Firstly they have published this article as a news item when it is an opinion piece 'legitimised' as an article , in their opinion, by including the views of ' the other side' albeit those views presented as aggressive.
A news article should be news full stop.
To justify this article they should have published opinion from other traders, from the general public, they should have published the scale of fees motorhomers would have to pay on a site etc etc.
Anybody with strong views should be mailing them to the council, visitors should try to make it obvious to retailers/carers that they are there spending money simply because they were able to park up in the locality for the night .

 

[thegoodlookingbloke]

If you don't need to go into somebodys field why should you?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-19046207,oh well off to wales !

This topic is my very reason to be a wildcamper.

My motorhome is fully self sufficient, its road legal, doesn't take up more space than a large van, I never leave any trace where I have been and I do not cause any obstuctions or do things to alienate anyone. So why should I wish to pay someone to go into their field? it makes no sense at all.

I had to joint the C&CC many years ago in order to get insurance, but that isn't the case now and the more I hear about the C&CC the more I realise that us motorhomers don't need them at all and don't need soggy fields to tramp around in.:wave:

 

[Tco]

Going back to original complaint, I for one, would definitely NOT want to park in a layby with "fifty" other vans.

This lady has a business which she clearly wants some help running. It is her problem if her bookings are down, I have suggested to her that she looks at the cost of a family of four staying one night with no electric hook up being £23 per night. If she addresses that then perhaps her occupancy rate might improve.

Having said that, caravans (of all types) parking overnight is a matter of degree. If it was a single van, I doubt anyone would notice, but when a big gang rock up it causes problems. This how Travellers (note the capital letter) have become a problem in some parts. When it was the odd couple of vans for a few nights it was less of a problem. However when they started banding together possibly for their own security, people tend to notice them more.

There is no simple solution. Impose too many restrictions a the spending public will simply not come. Camp in a group in a layby and you are the problem. What it needs is a compromise. A field with basic waste disposal facilities is what most wild campers need. But if you abuse the system you spoil it for others. Witness what happened at Barra. Some stayed for ever, or perhaps it felt like it, causing the locals to object and the area was closed off. Steps are being taken there to establish basic campsites to serve the need and most people are satisfied.

 

[Admin]

I understand that this is an important issue to our members and that this can become emotive.

Although we as a group do promote ethical wild camping, not all motorhomes are the same. I am sure that some of the reports made about motorhomers are true. I doubt however that the percentage of 'naughty' motorhomers is higher than the percentage of 'naughty' people in any defined group.

I can imagine that it is frustrating for campsite owners when they see people that they feel should be using their site parking for free. Although I do not agree with their point of view, I can see that it is a valid one for them.

This year we have had bad weather and the olympics that will have had an effect on summer bookings. If I want to sit in front of a TV I would not do it while I was paying to be on holiday. I also think that after so much rain this year many people are not keen on the thought of camping.

Let us try and be pleasant to each other as we discuss these issues and lets try and understand the whole picture.

 

[jamesmarshall]

As Maingate said, it is actually illegal for her to re-sell electricity for more than it costs her, so she is breaking the law! If you were not so blinkered you might have a good point but it is ridiculous to claim that all the fault is on the side of those who complain about her and that she should be free from criticism.

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but its occurred to me that as a hook up fee is the same for each pitch, some users will abstract more or less electricity than others for the same fee. It would seem to me then that the electricity is not metered to each pitch and campers would therefore be paying for the service and not the electricity. Does this make sense?

 

[bopper]

I have just sat here and read this thread very carefully and could I please make the following comments:

That lady has every right to make those comments, in her world, she owns a business making money from tourists and in an area where tourism is it's main trade, she is looking toward her council / councillors to back her. (I lived for 18 years on the Isle of Wight and worked in the tourist industry there, and I know just what these councils are interested in, taking as much money as they can from Tourists.. known as Grockles.)
As said by one poster on here The BBC should know better than to report this kind of thing as a biased report. The BBC do this kind of thing all the time. Both regionally and nationally they 'hype' news and news stories to either make them more interesting than they really are, to raise an audience for their viewers and listeners by stirring up anger amongst locally opposed views, and to take away political attack from opposition parties. (I worked for them for 17 years)
I reiterate what I have said in other threads of the same ilk. I have paid my road tax and insurance and I can, and will, park where I want too if it does not cause an obstruction and is lawful.
Now lets make two assumptions here:
One is... They ban parking and sleeping in lays-bys. All long distance drivers would not be entering the county of Cornwall because they cannot drive more than 8 hours or so and therefore would not attempt to deliver goods. Cornwall would fall apart without it's supply line from the rest of the country because it's such a long way.
Two... For a person who is a businessman to be posting a great length on here every day one can assume he doesn't have much to do in the way of business.
I thank you.

 

[jamesmarshall]

Now lets make two assumptions here:

Two... For a person who is a businessman to be posting a great length on here every day one can assume he doesn't have much to do in the way of business.
I thank you.

I'm guessing that the above is a personal pop at Northerner and I'm sure he will want to comment on it himself but I have to ask, why would you want to say it? It has nothing to do with the thread.

 

[John H]

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but its occurred to me that as a hook up fee is the same for each pitch, some users will abstract more or less electricity than others for the same fee. It would seem to me then that the electricity is not metered to each pitch and campers would therefore be paying for the service and not the electricity. Does this make sense?

Sorry, but under regulations which came into force on 1st January 2003 (subsequent to the Electricity Act of 1989) it was forbidden to any longer make an "availability charge". From that date onward it has been illegal to charge more than the electricity cost the site owner. This means that they can only legally charge a blanket cost for the pitch (so that the electricity cost is not stated) or to meter the electricity and charge accordingly. Interesting, isn't it, that so many campsite owners are being allowed to walk all over the law without a single prosecution that I am aware of?

 

[champstar]

I have read the thread from the start and wanted to comment but was rather afraid to..for obvious reasons...we all disagree and have different viewpoints.

From what I can gage the campsite owner has every right to complain but then uses such language as to incite such an uproar.

It would be better if we as a wildcamping community tried to change perceptions by information about the reasons for wildcamping...I know there are many.
In tourist hotspots it is all about money...I can understand that but times are changing and choice is paramount...it seems (I do not know the area) that the choice for motorhomers is visit the area and spend a small fortune (too some but not others) on a piece of land that they will probably occupy overnight and be out and about during the day, or park up for free and hopefully spend their money in the community. A bit of commonsense from business people would see that different things are needed by different camping groups and by offering a service customers will come.
How can it be that aires , municipal and full blown campsites can exist in places like France and Germany but not here?

 

[northernspirit2001]

I have just sat here and read this thread very carefully and could I please make the following comments:

That lady has every right to make those comments, in her world, she owns a business making money from tourists and in an area where tourism is it's main trade, she is looking toward her council / councillors to back her. (I lived for 18 years on the Isle of Wight and worked in the tourist industry there, and I know just what these councils are interested in, taking as much money as they can from Tourists.. known as Grockles.)
As said by one poster on here The BBC should know better than to report this kind of thing as a biased report. The BBC do this kind of thing all the time. Both regionally and nationally they 'hype' news and news stories to either make them more interesting than they really are, to raise an audience for their viewers and listeners by stirring up anger amongst locally opposed views, and to take away political attack from opposition parties. (I worked for them for 17 years)
I reiterate what I have said in other threads of the same ilk. I have paid my road tax and insurance and I can, and will, park where I want too if it does not cause an obstruction and is lawful.
Now lets make two assumptions here:
One is... They ban parking and sleeping in lays-bys. All long distance drivers would not be entering the county of Cornwall because they cannot drive more than 8 hours or so and therefore would not attempt to deliver goods. Cornwall would fall apart without it's supply line from the rest of the country because it's such a long way.
Two... For a person who is a businessman to be posting a great length on here every day one can assume he doesn't have much to do in the way of business.
I thank you.

HGV drivers can only travel 4.5h then need 45mins off, more and more these days "overnight", combining loads to save fuel, and a legal rest for sleep is usually 11 hours but can be reduced to 9 sometimes. (This is based on PSV as that's what I do but HGV is very similar where it's not identical). Nobody honks at them in lay-by's! In my experience they pee and sh** in the gutter. If you've ever had to park in a lorry park at services you will smell evidence of how some are too lazy to walk to the toilets provided. Sorry, this isn't a dig at lorry driver's, just making a point how they're welcome to use lay-by's and we are expected to park up our motorhomes and sleep in a hotel for the night.

 

[Tco]

I would have thought that metering each and every electricity point would not be economically viable, even if it were within the law as it now (aparently) stands. I don't know about others on here but I tend to take an electric supply if one is available at a reasonable cost, but it is not imperative that I do so.

Incidentally I have had a reply from Suzy Watts, She thanks me for my comments and intends to pass them on to her local council (which is fine by me). She further states that some of her competitors charge up to £35 having more facilities than hers. Looking at her price list it wouldn't be too difficult to get near or even exceed that on her site if you had (say) three kids, a dog, an awning and needed electricity.

I echo Phil's words, surely we can discuss this and other matters on this forum without making assumptions, and/or potentially insulting remarks about other posters.

 

[Bushtrekker]

Campsite Fees

We joined the C&CC club to use their temporary holiday sites and have already got our money back, but their sites are expensive. We used a site in Marazion earlier this year, not the one in the article, but I really wanted to stay next to the beach, but there was no room. We paid £20 a night to stay at a site with basic facilities within walking distance of the village.

Going to France has made me realise even more what a rip off British sites are. On our way back to the ferry we stayed on a site which had a swimming pool, bar and restaurant, stalls for locals to sell their produce and still only cost £20 Euros per night and 2 Euros for WiFi It was real WiFi as well, not the low bandwidth you pay a fortune for on sites here. There has to be a business opportunity here for someone who has the land and the foresight to realise that there is a very real demand for something like the Aires system here. I really don't want to pay £30 just to fill up with water and empty the loo. In Isigny sur Mer, the Aire is right next to the river and we pulled in to empty the loo and fill the tank, which I think cost me about 3 euros. If someone set up a chain of service points, possible based on car parks, I would happily pay out £5 every four days or so and it's all automated, so doesn't even have to be staffed. It would be interesting to know whether the lady who was complaining is either on, or has a relative, on the local council.

I'm sure a lot of people on here are like me and want to be up and out early to go fishing, or watch the sunrise, but you can't do that on a site which locks the gates until 7.30am

 

[John H]

I would have thought that metering each and every electricity point would not be economically viable, even if it were within the law as it now (aparently) stands. I don't know about others on here but I tend to take an electric supply if one is available at a reasonable cost, but it is not imperative that I do so.

Hi

I agree with you that I like to know the various elements of the cost so that I can decide what to buy and what not to but the current law says that this is only possible for electricity if a meter is used. For campsite owners who cannot afford to install meters then they are supposed to just state one price for the pitch including electricity. It may be inconvenient but nobody ever accused the law of being logical! (which is probably why so many campsite owners are allowed to break the law).