Jimmy Carrs tax avoidance

[John H]

Saddened by the attitude of "get away with it if you can"

I explained fully why I was not unduly surprised.

Dezi c:

Our entire legal system is based upon "get away with it if you can". The law in the UK does not lay out what we should do but lays out what we shouldn't. Thus if there are glaring loopholes in the "what we shouldn't" bit then it is up to our lords and masters to change the bloody law - don't blame the rest of us for following the law. As for human nature, then there is no disagreement - we are not a very moral or pleasant bunch on the whole - maybe it's time to admit the experiment failed

 

[DRoader]

It would appear that David Cameron owes some of his own family fortune to tax avoidance schemes set up by his father. Oh the irony - Cameron family fortune made in tax havens | Politics | The Guardian

David Cameron's father set up offshore investment funds which explicitly boasted of their ability to remain outside UK tax jurisdiction.

David Cameron's father ran a network of offshore investment funds to help build the family fortune that paid for the prime minister's inheritance, the Guardian can reveal.

Though entirely legal, the funds were set up in tax havens such as Panama City and Geneva, and explicitly boasted of their ability to remain outside UK tax jurisdiction.

 

[sean rua]

Just three points from me:

a) "the law is an ass" and it's purpose is to ensure that the working class do the donkey work.

b) "Money goes to money" and the rich look after the rich. Why wouldn't they? Nothing new there.

c) I have no TV and have never even heard of the so-called celebrities in question.
What surprises me is that while we are constantly told that there is a terrible recession and that ordinary folk should tighten their belts and take a good big dose of austerity to help the banks and save the "country "( they mean the rich people), these folk seem to have been able to amass huge fortunes from the "entertainment industry".
Obviously, I can't figure out how, but it would appear to me that many, good, hardworking, men have gone to the wall during the same period.

Personally, I have no wish to put any money into any of these guys pockets - and that includes Dave's!
Not a bit of wonder that the fabric of society is falling to pieces if these are the kind of people that can prosper in today's Britain.


sean rua.

 

[vwalan]

thought every one knew that self employed folk hardly pay tax .they just have big expenses . m,homes as publicity vehicles trips away to get new business .etc all tax deductable .only workers pay tax . its always been like it .its not new . motor bikes for express deliveries its anything goes .

 

[vwalan]

we used to race vw ,s trial them rally them all under the advertizing label . visit factories every where . sometimes it was a waste of time we drove all the way to spain just to find out they didnt do what we thought they did .nod ,nod . it could take weeks at times . i thought taxs was something you nailed carpet down with . i cant smell either.

 

[John H]

Good point Sean but am afraid it is the brainwashed masses who buy the celebrity magazines and pay the football prices or pay for sky etc that make these people rich ?

Can't argue with the sentiment but why separate ourselves from the hoards? Hands up anyone who hasn't filled up with deisel before travelling back from France to the UK or filled the van with cigarettes and booze before boarding that same ferry. Its all tax avoidance and its all legal. I am willing to bet that there isn't one person on this forum who hasn't done it - and we would probably all do it on the Jimmy Carr scale if we had the Jimmy Carr income. The law needs changing but not because those rich people can't be trusted; its because none of us can be trusted.

 

[Funky Farmer]

Tch! It's a hard life ain't it. Phew!... I dunno

 

[vwalan]

even trips to where ever need carefull planing . you dont want to go somewhere thats not tied into your business . .my kids thought everyone visited factories when abroad .or took trike bodies tied on the roof to portugal etc . you just cant trust the carriers can you . ha ha .

 

[Channa]

I am amazed this thread has got so far and no one has commented on tax evasion and avoidance two totally seperate things.

I really can't be bothered to find out who jimmy Carr is ....but I bet he isn't a tax accountant.

The government make the rules if people have the nouse and dosh to avoid tax then so be it.

Mr average who pays his tax neither has the intellect or b
rass to pay less tax...fact of life

**** happens ...my heart bleeds...

Can anyone look me in the eye and honestly admit that in terms of stoppages, given a choice they wouldn't reduce it and have money back in their pocket?.

Channa

 

[vwalan]

hi channa tax evasion is a crime .
tax avoidance is an innocent past time . british business,s would pack up if avoidance was stopped .

 

[vwalan]

the bigest british /american tax avoidance is amway . its not about selling crap .but making a loss then putting the loss against your pay as you earn tax . suits .cars you name it you can lose a fortune if you try hard .

 

[Channa]

All part of my point Alan.....evasion gets you showering with strange men avoidance is a legal and entertainment value.


The way to quell it all of course is indirect taxation in vat as an example...spend on luxuries then pay....the peasants can't afford luxuries so are safe....great idea
Channa

 

[John H]

I am amazed this thread has got so far and no one has commented on tax evasion and avoidance two totally seperate things.

Didn't mention it because this thread is specifically about tax avoidance and, from the replies, it seems that everybody knows the difference. Agree with the general thrust of your post, though.

 

[Dezi]

Our entire legal system is based upon "get away with it if you can". The law in the UK does not lay out what we should do but lays out what we shouldn't. Thus if there are glaring loopholes in the "what we shouldn't" bit then it is up to our lords and masters to change the bloody law - don't blame the rest of us for following the law. As for human nature, then there is no disagreement - we are not a very moral or pleasant bunch on the whole - maybe it's time to admit the experiment failed

To say that the our entire legal system is based upon "get away with it if you can".
Is wrong.
English law is based on custom & practise going back before 1215 & 1066.
It is based around the concept that we have common sense. That from the age of 10 we are culpable ie know right from wrong and that we all have a moral conscience and are expected to follow it. By and large this works very well.
However there is always somebody who will try to buck the norm.
The scheme that Carr and others used was already under investigation because although the concept is legal it was being misused & abused by tax shy individuals.

Some of the other points made in this thread:-

"the law is an ass" and it's purpose is to ensure that the working class do the donkey work"
"the brainwashed masses"
"Mr average who pays his tax neither has the intellect or brass to pay less tax"

Sounds like the intro to the chorus of “SHE WAS POOR BUT SHE WAS HONEST”

Altogether perleeze

It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor what gets the blame,
It's the rich what gets the pleasure,
Isn't it a blooming shame?

Dezi c:

 

[John H]

To say that the our entire legal system is based upon "get away with it if you can".
Is wrong.
English law is based on custom & practise going back before 1215 & 1066.
It is based around the concept that we have common sense. That from the age of 10 we are culpable ie know right from wrong and that we all have a moral conscience and are expected to follow it. By and large this works very well.
However there is always somebody who will try to buck the norm.
The scheme that Carr and others used was already under investigation because although the concept is legal it was being misused & abused by tax shy individuals.

Well, there's a rose tinted view of the world if ever I saw one!

The basis of our common law is not so much "common sense" (there is no definition of common sense that any two people can agree on !) but the principal that it is unfair to treat two similar sets of facts differently on two different occasions. Thus the body of precedent is built up - and if there is no precedent and no statute forbidding something then that something is deemed to be legal. In other words, the law tells us what the limits of our legal activity can be. If you can find a loophole then you may follow it. This may not be moral but no-one ever accused the law of being moral (except you, it seems).

 

[vwalan]

think the word loophole is not ideal really .i dont look at things like that as loop holes they are usully just alternative ways of being legal .loopholes grey areas .all the same . we can have different ways of interpreting the rules thats not grey or illegal .thats how the system works .
you could ask the question what colour is the sky ?. please answer in one word .

 

[John H]

think the word loophole is not ideal really .i dont look at things like that as loop holes they are usully just alternative ways of being legal .loopholes grey areas .all the same . we can have different ways of interpreting the rules thats not grey or illegal .thats how the system works .
you could ask the question what colour is the sky ?. please answer in one word .

Correct, Alan - sloppy language on my part.

 

[vwalan]

not meant as a wrong one for you .i just think it gets used by many but really its meaning is incorrect.
by using it people create an issue . not knocking you .

 

[wildman]

I am disgusted by the remarks made by the prime minister.
Tax avoidance is legal end of story.
To try and defame the character of a person for doing something legal it abhorent.
More should have been said about the crooks claiming expences for which they were not entitled within the government.

 

[Dezi]

Well, there's a rose tinted view of the world if ever I saw one!

The basis of our common law is not so much "common sense" (there is no definition of common sense that any two people can agree on !) but the principal that it is unfair to treat two similar sets of facts differently on two different occasions. Thus the body of precedent is built up - and if there is no precedent and no statute forbidding something then that something is deemed to be legal. In other words, the law tells us what the limits of our legal activity can be. If you can find a loophole then you may follow it. This may not be moral but no-one ever accused the law of being moral (except you, it seems).

So expecting people to know right from wrong, be responsible their actions and have some common sense is looking at the World with a rose tinted view is it?

I am not surprised by the response as your previously ending statement was.

“We are not a very moral or pleasant bunch on the whole - maybe it's time to admit the experiment failed”

It would appear that despite your extensive travelling you have learned very little from it.

Your cynical attitude regarding mankind is not one that I would ever go along with.

Possibly its time to change your attitude & perhaps pop along to specsaver

Dezi c: