frying oil as fuel? law in UK?

mart1

Guest
Hi all,

In France, I use to drive with 50%frying oil - 50%fuel when temperature is over 5°C :D. It's cheap, ecologic (but forbidden).
If we come into UK during this summer, do one of you know if there is a law about this???
Thanks a lot ;)
 
I run my Bongo on 50/50 during winter here and 100% rape seed oil through the summer months Now and have done so for a few years.
There is a lot about this subject on the Bongo Fury website. But in a nutshell. you can burn up to 2500 ltrs a year here without paying tax on it. You should be able to prove how much you have used. Keep reciepts etc. But I have never had probs. even stopped by ministry check point once and the bloke said he couldn't check mine as I was burning veggie. The Police here don't want to know as it would make a lot of work for them.Saing this though. I burn new veg oil and only Rape seed oil. But it is getting harder to obtain over here at the right price. Supermarkets have started to keep their veg oil prices in line with diesel.
What oil do you use in France? A few years ago I got a load of Grape seed oil over there at a very good price and it was better than Rape seed. (more MPG).
 
I'll bet there is In the UK there's a law about every thing Chip oil smells and is easily detected Heating oil doesn't
appears its OK if you pay the duty on it now there's a surprise

HM Revenue & Customs
 
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new to this

IH all, I got myself a fiat ducato last year and am delighted with it...had my first weekend away two weeks ago.... Do you have to make any conversions to a diesel engine to run it on veg oil?
thanks
Sara
 
I hadn't any conversion to make, because my toyota has an "old" diesel motor. I've just to take care when temperature is cold because veg'oil can congeal.
I can't help you because it's technic vocabulary that I don't know in english :( (even with a translator...)
I hope members of the forum can help you... ;)
What kind of motor has your ducato : hdi, "normal" diesel?
 
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SaraH said:
IH all, I got myself a fiat ducato last year and am delighted with it...had my first weekend away two weeks ago.... Do you have to make any conversions to a diesel engine to run it on veg oil?
thanks
Sara
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Hi Sara
What year is your ducato mines on a k plate and is ok to run on veg oil but you need to change the fuel filter very regularly to avoid problems..
Personally I can't be bothered drive at a steady pace and I get 30 mpg so it's not a problem..
Each to there own is my way of thinking...
 
If you speak french (or manage to understand google translate :eek:), here is a french forum about this subject.
Maybe an equivalent exists in english???
 
theres a lot of info on the web about which engines will run on veg oil.... best to use google to search for your own motor, ive no experience of ducatos fiat engines but the info must be out there. in the past ive had a talbot expess...(same van as a ducato , but peugeot engine) which was fine with a veg mix.
 
A word of warning to anyone thinking of running their beloved vans on veggie oil. Yes it is possible with the right engine and fuel pump. However if you do not research it properly and manage it correctly you can easily screw up your engine resulting in a huge garage bill. There is so much hearsay and rumour on the internet about this subject and so many comments such as;

"I hadn't any conversion to make, because my toyota has an "old" diesel motor. I've just to take care when temperature is cold because veg'oil can congeal."

"
What year is your ducato mines on a k plate and is ok to run on veg oil but you need to change the fuel filter very regularly to avoid problems.."

"It would seem anything with a bosch injection pump"

These type of comments can lead the unwary to think that their engine will be fine if they have say an old diesel engine and that if they change their filters regulary it will be ok or if they have a bosche pump it will be fine, etc etc.
Having run vehicles on veg oil for well over 5 years now i can say that yes you can do it, but there are many un forseen things that can go wrong and if anyone tells you that you can just put veg oil in the tank and if it has a bosche pump it will be fine, then don't believe them until you've done LOTS of research. Good luck oh and if you don't believe me pop into your local garage and ask them just how many cars they have had to repair because people have filled up with veg oil, not knowing what they are doing.
 
Harmergeddon said:
There is so much hearsay and rumour on the internet about this subject and so many comments such as;

"I hadn't any conversion to make, because my toyota has an "old" diesel motor. I've just to take care when temperature is cold because veg'oil can congeal."
.
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That's sure that before using frying oil in your engine, you have to get informations about ;)
I did it few years ago, and would have done it if I had read that I could use piss as fuel :p

@ Harmergeddon : do you work for British Petroleum??? (joke)
 
mart1 said:
@ Harmergeddon : do you work for British Petroleum??? (joke)
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Haha no, just like to point out that it's not as easy as just throwing it in the tank. You wouldn't believe what some people do. So is it actually illegal in france. I've just come back from a trip to the alps, all on wvo. Had 250ltrs of the stuff in the boot of my van when i crossed into france, like to know the customs would make of that. :banana:
 
Hi i make my own bio derv from veg oil you can use 2500 lt a year before you pay tax on it you carnt use just veg oil you must make it in to bio useing methonol and costic soda to make bio if you use just veg oil the law will take your van and fine you 500 pound for your first offence you may aswell use red derv its the same fine so as risk your engine with oil you may aswell use cherry
 
Stubby said:
if you use just veg oil the law will take your van and fine you 500 pound for your first offence you may aswell use red derv its the same fine so as risk your engine with oil you may aswell use cherry
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This is simply not true. See here
HM Revenue & Customs
paragraphs 4.2.4 and associated paragraph 4.2.1 and note that vegetable oil can be considered a fuel substitute.
 
The link in the second post set me thinking.

Bio for use in household heating can have the duty element rebated.

We run autogas instead of bottle gas for our heating and cooking. We pay road excise duty on this LPG even if we can get it supplied at 5%VAT instead of 20%VAT.

As a result I have fired of a letter to:
HM Revenue & Customs
Mineral Oil Reliefs Centre
Dobson House
Regent Centre
Newcastle
NE3 3PF

Dear Sirs

I live full time in this motorhome, so it is my house. The address above is our contact address.

I use “Autogas” LPG as my gas supply for domestic heating and cooking in my Motorhome. I have an 85 litre bulk tank onboard my motorhome instead of using bottled gas. I use about 1000 litres of Autogas per year for my domestic gas supply. The vehicle is powered by diesel fuel.

I note on your website that there is provision to claim a rebate by householders for the duty on biodiesel as a fuel for domestic heating. I am unaware if there is such a scheme for using LPG when supplied through an “Autogas” outlet. Is it possible for me to reclaim duty paid in the same manner for “Autogas” used for domestic purposes?

I can get my gas from Calor Gas Ltd or other LPG suppliers at the domestic gas rate of VAT (5%), but they tell me that they cannot supply me with gas without road fuel duty, as HMRC charge the duty when it is loaded into the supplying tank and not at point of sale.

It is not viable for a gas outlet to maintain two “Autogas” tanks for the small number of users who use the gas for domestic use, instead of propulsion, so we are forced to use the same tank as those using the gas for propulsion purposes. This would seem to be the same situation with Biodiesel but provision has been made to rebate the duty on that fuel to the householder.

If I purchase my gas from a garage, I am charged full road duty plus VAT at 20% as these suppliers refuse to supply at 5% vat.

I contacted HMRC regarding claiming the VAT difference but was told that as I am not eligible to register for VAT, I am unable to claim back the VAT difference.

I quote from your website

Can I use biodiesel for heating?

The use of biodiesel as a heating fuel is not a chargeable use and therefore no duty is due. Although there is provision in law for this fuel to be supplied without a duty charge being applied, the reclaim scheme described above can also be used to reclaim any duty that is charged by suppliers.

This system has been put in place because it is recognised that it can be difficult for householders to obtain biodiesel for non-road use that has not already been charged with Excise Duty. This will be an administrative decision for the supplier, who may not supply sufficient quantities of domestic heating biodiesel to differentiate between road and non-road customers.
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The paragraph highlighted and underlined above, would seem to apply equaly to our LPG supply situation. If there is no such scheme for LPG supply under the same circumstances then this surely is discriminatory.

Yours sincerely

John J Thompson


Anyone else fancy sending a letter to HMRC on this matter.
 
This definitely seems discriminatory. But due to the small number of users and small sums involved, I doubt they or the retailers would put measures in place to cater for it. It amounts to 15% of say £200 a year... £30 or so. Worth having but not if it's a lot of hassle to get.
 
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Firefox said:
This definitely seems discriminatory. But due to the small number of users and small sums involved, I doubt they or the retailers would put measures in place to cater for it. It amounts to 15% of say £200 a year... £30 or so. Worth having but not if it's a lot of hassle to get.
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From Jan to December 2011 I used 1062 litres of LPG.
Road Fuel Excise duty is curently 16.5p per litre which would represent £175.23 to me, so well worth claiming. Full timing I need to fill my tank with about 120 litres of LPG per month at the moment.

It is not VAT I am talking about as I already save the 15% on VAT by getting my gas at a Calor Gas Ltd depot at the domestic VAT rate and not from a petrol station. This is Road Fuel Excise Duty, which should not apply to fuel used for heating.

This is a scheme already run by the government for the supply of bio diesel to householders that has had excise duty charged to be reclaimed by the householder as it is not viable for the supplier to sort out a different system for domestic supplies. All it needs is for it to cover LPG for domestic heating as well.

John
 
hi harmergeddon is right the law has changed you can use svo to run your car or van on i have phoned customs and they have confirmed that this is true but you must keep a recored on the amount you use by the way of receipts sorry about any confusion with my other post but this used to be the case a few years ago you can still use 2500 lt with no tax or duty
 
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