Victron, lithium and 12v

campervanannie

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So bare with me on this one as it may not make sense away for 4 night 1st night all was well 2nd night battery down to 73% so all still ok 3rd night battery down to 60% everything went off when the battery was showing 54% thought something had tripped so went all through the system checking resetting where I could then found the reset button on the 12v trip thingy everything came back on by this time the battery with very little going in through the solar it got back up to around 60/65% then last night again when it got to around 53% it all tripped again so I didn’t mess this time as I was driving home so when I pulled into the services I thought I’ll just check on my phone and it had all come back on and the engine had got the battery back up to 60% anyone got any idea what’s going on or is my set up thinking my battery is flat below 54% and shutting its self down the only thing plugged in when it shut down both times was my iPhone charging.
Don’t get too technical in your replies as I am blond ( actually grey😂)
 
I have had it where my shunt reset to 100% SoC when the battery weren't full. Default on the Victron shunt used to be reset to 100% SoC if you had the battery disconnected. I know a firmware upgrade a while ago allowed you to set so it remembered previous state. Can it be something like that Annie?

If so the way round it for me was to go on hookup for 24 hours so I knew batteries were actually 100%.
 
So bare with me on this one as it may not make sense away for 4 night 1st night all was well 2nd night battery down to 73% so all still ok 3rd night battery down to 60% everything went off when the battery was showing 54% thought something had tripped so went all through the system checking resetting where I could then found the reset button on the 12v trip thingy everything came back on by this time the battery with very little going in through the solar it got back up to around 60/65% then last night again when it got to around 53% it all tripped again so I didn’t mess this time as I was driving home so when I pulled into the services I thought I’ll just check on my phone and it had all come back on and the engine had got the battery back up to 60% anyone got any idea what’s going on or is my set up thinking my battery is flat below 54% and shutting its self down the only thing plugged in when it shut down both times was my iPhone charging.
Don’t get too technical in your replies as I am blond ( actually grey😂)
The 54% SOC is taken from your Victron BMV I would assume? The battery has no internal SOC value that can be accessed (I am stating this to preempt suggestions that you check the battery itself - this is something you cannot do).

What I suspect is happening is the battery did go virtually flat and the SOC reading is out of sync with the true state of charge of the battery. The battery monitor and the presented SOC is in a way just a guess at what is left in the battery. It is usually a very good guess, but it can creep out of kilter gradually. Victron themselves recommend the monitor is re-synced on a monthly basis but few people do that, and don't really need to typically, but it can be useful to do. For example, one of my BMVs goes out by around 10% gradually and I notice when the battery doesn't take any more charge but it is reading in the low 90's for the SOC, so I then resync to 100%. In my case it is being pessimistic with the charge level - in your case it is being optimistic.
Another reason why it could be out is as Neil suggests - when the BMV resets to 100% on a power loss. This results in a very optimistic battery SOC. I usually change this setting on the BMV so it would reset to "--" instead of "100%", and more recently with the BMV-712 or Smartshunt, change the setting so it remembers the SOC on a restart (by far the most useful, but only available on Bluetooth enabled Monitors). I think you have this setting like that in your setup, but it is possible you don't?
If you want to check, run the VictronConnect app, click on the little gear icon in the top right and chose "battery settings" and then look towards the bottom for the item 'Battery SOC on Reset' and what it is set to. I would expect it to say "Keep SOC" like in my screenshot below
1760969465515.png


The possible choices for the Smartshunt and BMV-712 are below:
1760969542200.png

Keep SOC is now the default, but it used to be "Set to 100%" before the Keep SOC was available and that old default could cause issues with what is being told to the user.

You, Annie, will have the option above, but just to restate for someone else with a non-Bluetooth Victron Monitor (including ones using the BT Dongle - that doesn't count), the "Keep SOC" will not be available and instead you are stuck with the older options....
1760969794006.png

(My suggestion for anyone with limited selection as shown above... always turn that "battery starts synchronized" off, as I have done)


What would be interesting is what is the voltage showing on the BMV when you are seeing 54% or so? At 54% you should be at a voltage of say 13.1V or higher, but I bet it is middling 12.7V or so?
What I would do is do exactly what Neil is suggesting and plug the van into EHU for a full day - with your setup, you should be able to recharge from totally dead in less then 5 hours so a full day will give extra time for any final trickling just to make sure you are full.
But I would do one step further and when it is plugged in and charging, keep an eye on the BMV and when it gets to 100%, leave it plugged in and have a look at the current it is reading that is going into the battery .... if the battery is at 100%, the current should very very quickly drop to virtually nothing but I suspect you will continue to see 50A+ going in for a fair time still. If that is the case, it does mean the battery state of charge was not as reported and give you the reason for why you were losing the 12V.

By leaving it plugged in until the current is no longer a high value, you will have replenished the battery fully and the BMV Monitor will also have reset and corrected itself in effect.

Hope that helps. If you want to give me a call to discuss, please feel free (y)
 
The 54% SOC is taken from your Victron BMV I would assume? The battery has no internal SOC value that can be accessed (I am stating this to preempt suggestions that you check the battery itself - this is something you cannot do).

What I suspect is happening is the battery did go virtually flat and the SOC reading is out of sync with the true state of charge of the battery. The battery monitor and the presented SOC is in a way just a guess at what is left in the battery. It is usually a very good guess, but it can creep out of kilter gradually. Victron themselves recommend the monitor is re-synced on a monthly basis but few people do that, and don't really need to typically, but it can be useful to do. For example, one of my BMVs goes out by around 10% gradually and I notice when the battery doesn't take any more charge but it is reading in the low 90's for the SOC, so I then resync to 100%. In my case it is being pessimistic with the charge level - in your case it is being optimistic.
Another reason why it could be out is as Neil suggests - when the BMV resets to 100% on a power loss. This results in a very optimistic battery SOC. I usually change this setting on the BMV so it would reset to "--" instead of "100%", and more recently with the BMV-712 or Smartshunt, change the setting so it remembers the SOC on a restart (by far the most useful, but only available on Bluetooth enabled Monitors). I think you have this setting like that in your setup, but it is possible you don't?
If you want to check, run the VictronConnect app, click on the little gear icon in the top right and chose "battery settings" and then look towards the bottom for the item 'Battery SOC on Reset' and what it is set to. I would expect it to say "Keep SOC" like in my screenshot below
View attachment 146727

The possible choices for the Smartshunt and BMV-712 are below:
View attachment 146728
Keep SOC is now the default, but it used to be "Set to 100%" before the Keep SOC was available and that old default could cause issues with what is being told to the user.

You, Annie, will have the option above, but just to restate for someone else with a non-Bluetooth Victron Monitor (including ones using the BT Dongle - that doesn't count), the "Keep SOC" will not be available and instead you are stuck with the older options....
View attachment 146730
(My suggestion for anyone with limited selection as shown above... always turn that "battery starts synchronized" off, as I have done)


What would be interesting is what is the voltage showing on the BMV when you are seeing 54% or so? At 54% you should be at a voltage of say 13.1V or higher, but I bet it is middling 12.7V or so?
What I would do is do exactly what Neil is suggesting and plug the van into EHU for a full day - with your setup, you should be able to recharge from totally dead in less then 5 hours so a full day will give extra time for any final trickling just to make sure you are full.
But I would do one step further and when it is plugged in and charging, keep an eye on the BMV and when it gets to 100%, leave it plugged in and have a look at the current it is reading that is going into the battery .... if the battery is at 100%, the current should very very quickly drop to virtually nothing but I suspect you will continue to see 50A+ going in for a fair time still. If that is the case, it does mean the battery state of charge was not as reported and give you the reason for why you were losing the 12V.

By leaving it plugged in until the current is no longer a high value, you will have replenished the battery fully and the BMV Monitor will also have reset and corrected itself in effect.

Hope that helps. If you want to give me a call to discuss, please feel free (y)

What he said !
 
The 54% SOC is taken from your Victron BMV I would assume? The battery has no internal SOC value that can be accessed (I am stating this to preempt suggestions that you check the battery itself - this is something you cannot do).

What I suspect is happening is the battery did go virtually flat and the SOC reading is out of sync with the true state of charge of the battery. The battery monitor and the presented SOC is in a way just a guess at what is left in the battery. It is usually a very good guess, but it can creep out of kilter gradually. Victron themselves recommend the monitor is re-synced on a monthly basis but few people do that, and don't really need to typically, but it can be useful to do. For example, one of my BMVs goes out by around 10% gradually and I notice when the battery doesn't take any more charge but it is reading in the low 90's for the SOC, so I then resync to 100%. In my case it is being pessimistic with the charge level - in your case it is being optimistic.
Another reason why it could be out is as Neil suggests - when the BMV resets to 100% on a power loss. This results in a very optimistic battery SOC. I usually change this setting on the BMV so it would reset to "--" instead of "100%", and more recently with the BMV-712 or Smartshunt, change the setting so it remembers the SOC on a restart (by far the most useful, but only available on Bluetooth enabled Monitors). I think you have this setting like that in your setup, but it is possible you don't?
If you want to check, run the VictronConnect app, click on the little gear icon in the top right and chose "battery settings" and then look towards the bottom for the item 'Battery SOC on Reset' and what it is set to. I would expect it to say "Keep SOC" like in my screenshot below
View attachment 146727

The possible choices for the Smartshunt and BMV-712 are below:
View attachment 146728
Keep SOC is now the default, but it used to be "Set to 100%" before the Keep SOC was available and that old default could cause issues with what is being told to the user.

You, Annie, will have the option above, but just to restate for someone else with a non-Bluetooth Victron Monitor (including ones using the BT Dongle - that doesn't count), the "Keep SOC" will not be available and instead you are stuck with the older options....
View attachment 146730
(My suggestion for anyone with limited selection as shown above... always turn that "battery starts synchronized" off, as I have done)


What would be interesting is what is the voltage showing on the BMV when you are seeing 54% or so? At 54% you should be at a voltage of say 13.1V or higher, but I bet it is middling 12.7V or so?
What I would do is do exactly what Neil is suggesting and plug the van into EHU for a full day - with your setup, you should be able to recharge from totally dead in less then 5 hours so a full day will give extra time for any final trickling just to make sure you are full.
But I would do one step further and when it is plugged in and charging, keep an eye on the BMV and when it gets to 100%, leave it plugged in and have a look at the current it is reading that is going into the battery .... if the battery is at 100%, the current should very very quickly drop to virtually nothing but I suspect you will continue to see 50A+ going in for a fair time still. If that is the case, it does mean the battery state of charge was not as reported and give you the reason for why you were losing the 12V.

By leaving it plugged in until the current is no longer a high value, you will have replenished the battery fully and the BMV Monitor will also have reset and corrected itself in effect.

Hope that helps. If you want to give me a call to discuss, please feel free (y)
Cheers David and Neil I’ve hooked it up at home so will see how it goes. 👍
 
So bare with me on this one as it may not make sense away for 4 night 1st night all was well 2nd night battery down to 73% so all still ok 3rd night battery down to 60% everything went off when the battery was showing 54% thought something had tripped so went all through the system checking resetting where I could then found the reset button on the 12v trip thingy everything came back on by this time the battery with very little going in through the solar it got back up to around 60/65% then last night again when it got to around 53% it all tripped again so I didn’t mess this time as I was driving home so when I pulled into the services I thought I’ll just check on my phone and it had all come back on and the engine had got the battery back up to 60% anyone got any idea what’s going on or is my set up thinking my battery is flat below 54% and shutting its self down the only thing plugged in when it shut down both times was my iPhone charging.
Don’t get too technical in your replies as I am blond ( actually grey😂)
What size battery do you have and do you have solar and how much watts is it
 
The golden rule is start with the basics how much battery you have 100ah etc is the battery charging off grid from solar and is the solar good enough to keep the battery at a decent SOC during the day and still provide enough for TV phones etc when you do not have solar overnight
 
The golden rule is start with the basics how much battery you have 100ah etc is the battery charging off grid from solar and is the solar good enough to keep the battery at a decent SOC during the day and still provide enough for TV phones etc when you do not have solar overnight

To be fair, Annie's not as much in the dark as all that, she's like me in that she understands the system and what's required but problem solving can be a bit daunting, and she does have a pretty robust system which under normal circumstances is more than capable of keeping up with demand.
 
To be fair, Annie's not as much in the dark as all that, she's like me in that she understands the system and what's required but problem solving can be a bit daunting, and she does have a pretty robust system which under normal circumstances is more than capable of keeping up with demand.
Yes it’s one of those where you understand what it does when it works but when it goes wrong I need experts to talk me through the problem but at the moment I’m just waiting for it to show 100% and see what it does it’s on EHU at home on the drive.
 
100% and still charging it’s raining now so I’ll leave on EHU overnight and follow instructions tomorrow thanks
View attachment 146745
The above image shows the battery being charged at 40A and sitting at 13.69 volts, so it's clearly not fully charged as the 100% remaining capacity would suggest. This is not unusual for a capacity meter which works by Coloumb counting via a shunt, typically if the system has been left standing for a lengthy period of time. Basically what will happen now is your display will sit at 100% because it can't go any higher, meanwhile the charger will bring the REAL battery level up until it reaches 100% too and the charger cuts off.
The system is now effectively re calibrated at 100% and accurate once again.
 

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