Lossiemouth East Beach incident

[guerdeval]

We seem to be at a crossroads in motorhome technology when it comes to power.
With air fryers, diesel heaters, induction hobs, lithium batteries, and solar nothing is stopping us from removing gas all together from our motorhomes. The advantages massively outweigh the disadvantages. Less weight, storage space being freed up, safer, cheaper to run, no more having to seek out cylinders, or finding it more difficult to refill from fuel stations, and no more gas maintenance or inspections being required. But there is resistance against this, and with future advances in technology gas will surely have had its day. Why manufacturers have not grasped this eludes me, it’s high time they did.

Wildax offer these alternatives but they’re costly options

 

[Pudsey Bear]

We seem to be at a crossroads in motorhome technology when it comes to power.
With air fryers, diesel heaters, induction hobs, lithium batteries, and solar nothing is stopping us from removing gas all together from our motorhomes. The advantages massively outweigh the disadvantages. Less weight, storage space being freed up, safer, cheaper to run, no more having to seek out cylinders, or finding it more difficult to refill from fuel stations, and no more gas maintenance or inspections being required. But there is resistance against this, and with future advances in technology gas will surely have had its day. Why manufacturers have not grasped this eludes me, it’s high time they did.

I see what you mean Bill, but cost to the manufacturer is possibly why it is like this, not forgetting that most don't need it as they stay on sites, and even then not very often, we as a group are far more aware of the options than the vast majority, plus Caravanners dictate a lot of the options I suppose as the sales are a lot higher than MoHo's.

 

[r4dent]

You need decals on a campervan ?
I usually remove them . Crappy looking things

You need decals to register a vehicle as a motor caravan.
.
I don't think they are required for MOT, so you can remove them later, DVLA stipulates permanent.

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

www.gov.uk

​

Motor caravan external permanent features​

This list describes the external features which are commonly seen in motor caravans, and it is intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects to see when considering your application:

• 2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (this does not include windows on the driver or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation
• a separate door which provides access to the living accommodation of the vehicle (this excludes the driver and passenger doors); a window on this door counts as a separate window on the main body
• motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle
• an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle
• a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)

DVLA will need photographic evidence of the completed conversion.

 

[runnach]

Thought that was the reg I'd put in, showed as a white Peugeot van and last tax and MOT was 2019. Wouldn't be first time I'd ever made a mistake though.

No worries bud, not the first time I have input an O, instead of a 0 (zero). The real reason I checked was, that is a heck of a long time to be using a motor with no Tax and MOT, be a world record getting away with it with the amount of cameras, etc, dotted around the UK.

 

[Fisherman]

Wildax offer these alternatives but they’re costly options

Yes they are and their not up to the mark last time I checked.
And they’re costly options because like the rest of them they are ripping us off.
If I had taken the option of two lithium batteries instead of two lead batteries on my van I would have been charged £2500. When you consider my van came with all lithium compatible chargers the only price difference was the actual batteries.
Manufacturers are ripping us off right now on these limited options, but eventually the market will sort this out, and lithium will become standard.

 

[Fisherman]

I see what you mean Bill, but cost to the manufacturer is possibly why it is like this, not forgetting that most don't need it as they stay on sites, and even then not very often, we as a group are far more aware of the options than the vast majority, plus Caravanners dictate a lot of the options I suppose as the sales are a lot higher than MoHo's.

Actually Kev in recent years Motorhome and camper sales are greater than caravan sales in the U.K. but in Europe Motorhome sales vastly outnumber caravan sales.
As for costs Kev I don’t see why it should cost a lot more. There would be less installation work with no gas being installed and savings on gas related equipment, I reckon this would offset the cost of lithium batteries. Also air fryers are cheaper than gas ovens.
Diesel boilers are not much more expensive mine was a £60 option. All that’s left is your gas hob, induction hobs are not expensive. The one big difference would be an inverter, you can buy a one kw victron for £240.
What’s going on right now is manufacturers ripping us off plain and simple.

 

[ProDave]

Motor caravan external permanent features​

This list describes the external features which are commonly seen in motor caravans, and it is intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects to see when considering your application:

• 2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (this does not include windows on the driver or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation
• a separate door which provides access to the living accommodation of the vehicle (this excludes the driver and passenger doors); a window on this door counts as a separate window on the main body
• motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle
• an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle
• a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)

DVLA will need photographic evidence of the completed conversion.

So a T5 for instance with an elevating roof is NOT considered as a "motor caravan" by the DVLA then?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

You need decals to register a vehicle as a motor caravan.
.
I don't think they are required for MOT, so you can remove them later, DVLA stipulates permanent.

Motor caravan external permanent features​

This list describes the external features which are commonly seen in motor caravans, and it is intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects to see when considering your application:

• 2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (this does not include windows on the driver or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation
• a separate door which provides access to the living accommodation of the vehicle (this excludes the driver and passenger doors); a window on this door counts as a separate window on the main body
• motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle
• an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle
• a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)

DVLA will need photographic evidence of the completed conversion.

The buggers have moved the goalposts yet again. I had no issues getting motorcaravan on the selfbuilds V5, no awning, no raised roof (why?) and zero graphics as required below.

Motor caravan external permanent features​

This list describes the external features which are commonly seen in motor caravans, and it is intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects to see when considering your application:

• 2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (this does not include windows on the driver or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation
• a separate door which provides access to the living accommodation of the vehicle (this excludes the driver and passenger doors); a window on this door counts as a separate window on the main body
• motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle
• an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle
• a high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof)

DVLA will need photographic evidence of the completed conversion.

Evidence needed to support your application​

You must include the following evidence to support your application:

• A completed motor caravan conversion checklist
• a V5C showing one of the applicable body types as above
• interior photos of each one of the required features with the bed and table in the use position (see ‘Motor caravan internal features’ below); the photos must show that there are 2 or more windows providing daylight into the main living accommodation on at least one side of the main body
• exterior photos from the front, both sides and rear with the registration plates clearly visible
• a photo showing the vehicle identification number (VIN) or the chassis number stamped on the plate attached to the original chassis or vehicle bodyshell

On the back of each photo, write a description of what the photo shows, the date and the vehicle registration number.

 

[r4dent]

So a T5 for instance with an elevating roof is NOT considered as a "motor caravan" by the DVLA then?

An existing "T5 with an elevating roof" that is already registered as a "Motor Caravan" remains a "Motor Caravan".

A newly converted one will be registered as a "van with windows".

 

[ProDave]

This registering your van conversion as a motorhome. I thought the main reason you did that was so that car speed limits applied rather than commercial vehicle speed limits?

so why does the DVLA site say

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

From https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...van/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

 

[mark61]

This registering your van conversion as a motorhome. I thought the main reason you did that was so that car speed limits applied rather than commercial vehicle speed limits?

so why does the DVLA site say

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

From https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...van/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

Because the speed limit applied to a motorhome, not registered as a motorhome is the same as a motorhome registered as a motorhome.

With a motorhome not registered as a motorhome, you may find yourself having to appeal a speeding ticket though.

Assuming an unladen weight of not more than 3.05 tonnes of course.

 

[r4dent]

I thought the main reason you did that was so that car speed limits applied rather than commercial vehicle speed limits?

On some ferries a van can cost significantly more than a motorhome.

 

[mark61]

They may well charge extra for a van, especially if on a commercial journey, but on the routes I use, and I suspect others, you will be able to select motorhome, regardless of what the vehicle is registered as.

Off course if you select MH and actually have a van, you can expect to be the charged extra at the port, if they bother to take a look, which they sometime do.

 

[Nabsim]

We seem to be at a crossroads in motorhome technology when it comes to power.
With air fryers, diesel heaters, induction hobs, lithium batteries, and solar nothing is stopping us from removing gas all together from our motorhomes. The advantages massively outweigh the disadvantages. Less weight, storage space being freed up, safer, cheaper to run, no more having to seek out cylinders, or finding it more difficult to refill from fuel stations, and no more gas maintenance or inspections being required. But there is resistance against this, and with future advances in technology gas will surely have had its day. Why manufacturers have not grasped this eludes me, it’s high time they did.

Not sure that weight would be less on all electric vans and it would certainly be much more expensive. These days a £5000 electrical setup is pretty basic if its being done for you.
Extra stuff I carry these days is Remoska, coffee machine, air fryer, induction hob, slow cooker, that adds up to a few kgs that I rarely use. My 2000W pure sine wave inverter is a big heavy beast as well. Conversely my composite refillable (piped in) is very light.

Gas is still used a lot and will continue to be so long after we have all gone, they are building boats that run on LPG. There are already non fossil fuel gas produced and on sale that goes straight into standard log refillable and no changes needed t use it.

 

[Nabsim]

They may well charge extra for a van, especially if on a commercial journey, but on the routes I use, and I suspect others, you will be able to select motorhome, regardless of what the vehicle is registered as.

Off course if you select MH and actually have a van, you can expect to be the charged extra at the port, if they bother to take a look, which they sometime do.

Is yours down as van with windows? I think van with windows and motor caravan are treated as the same thing. May be wrong but I haven't heard of any problems with vans with windows classification

 

[alcam]

So a T5 for instance with an elevating roof is NOT considered as a "motor caravan" by the DVLA then?

Bit puzzled , at motorhome dealers recently pretty sure there was more than one new van without decals . Though 'motor caravan style graphics' does sound a bit legally ambiguous

 

[Fisherman]

Not sure that weight would be less on all electric vans and it would certainly be much more expensive. These days a £5000 electrical setup is pretty basic if its being done for you.
Extra stuff I carry these days is Remoska, coffee machine, air fryer, induction hob, slow cooker, that adds up to a few kgs that I rarely use. My 2000W pure sine wave inverter is a big heavy beast as well. Conversely my composite refillable (piped in) is very light.

Gas is still used a lot and will continue to be so long after we have all gone, they are building boats that run on LPG. There are already non fossil fuel gas produced and on sale that goes straight into standard log refillable and no changes needed t use it.

ok Nab let’s take my van
First I don’t need £5000 worth of extra electrical work.
My van came with an electrical system including lithium compatible chargers.
All I did was replace the two lead batteries and fit a victron inverter.
Total cost including batteries currently around £840.
including my installation total costs £1100.
My diesel boiler upgrade cost me £60.
But most if not all of this would be offset by not requiring gas installation works and equipment.

I carry two 13kg gas cylinders when full they weigh 59kg
I have a large metal gas cabinet and all of the gas pipes and gas equipment let’s say 15kg so that’s 74kg.
I replaced two lead batteries with two lithiums saving a further 26kg.
I would no longer require a gas oven which weighs 9 kg
Total weight saving 109kg.
On the flip side my victron inverter weighs 8kg
I would carry an air fryer to replace gas oven approx 5kg
I would install a third lithium battery due to the compressor fridge 14kg
As for the induction hob, it would be replacing the gas hob.
A coffee machine, slow cooker are options which would be part of your payload regardless of how you power your van.
My net gain in payload if I went all electric would be 82kg

I would no longer need to pay for gas refills, nor ever run out of gas.
I would have more storage space in my van due to not having a large gas cupboard.
I would no longer require annual gas inspections at £95 a go.
No risk of gas induced carbon monoxide poising.
No risk of gas explosions.
When using campsites I don’t require EHU and take non EHU pitches were possible.

Rapido currently have three vans in their European spec were the only gas appliance is the hob. All they need to do is replace the gas hob with an induction hob, and job done.
With the advances in lithium technology, and the vast reduction in price, I reckon many more vans will be supplied without gas the near future. Currently manufacturers are ripping us off for lithium, but I suspect the market will soon take care of this, and lithium will become standard sooner than later, and with much greater usable capacity lithium offers all electric vans are sure to follow.

 

[trevskoda]

You need decals on a campervan ?
I usually remove them . Crappy looking things

They have removed that clause.

 

[trevskoda]

Yes they are and their not up to the mark last time I checked.
And they’re costly options because like the rest of them they are ripping us off.
If I had taken the option of two lithium batteries instead of two lead batteries on my van I would have been charged £2500. When you consider my van came with all lithium compatible chargers the only price difference was the actual batteries.
Manufacturers are ripping us off right now on these limited options, but eventually the market will sort this out, and lithium will become standard.

So they wanted £2.300 to fit a battery, at least dick turpin had the decency to wear a mask.

 

[r4dent]

You need decals on a campervan ?
I usually remove them . Crappy looking things

They have removed that clause.

@trevskoda Do you have a source for this ?

DVLA site as at 12:30 17/7/25

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

www.gov.uk

"motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle"