Low emissions zones in France

[TJBi]

The French National Assembly has voted to include the abolition of ZFEs (low emissions zones) in a bill that is currently going through the French parliament. It is still necessary for the entire bill to be approved (with this measure still included) for the abolition to take place.

L'Assemblée nationale vote la suppression des ZFE, "zones à faibles émissions" - ici

Dans le cadre de l'examen du projet de loi de "simplification", les députés ont approuvé ce mercredi soir la suppression des ZFE, ces zones qui excluaient de la circulation les véhicules les plus polluants. Une quarantaine d'agglomérations sont concernées.

www.francebleu.fr

L’Assemblée nationale vote la suppression des zones à faibles émissions

Adoptée par 98 voix contre 51, la mesure doit encore être confirmée lors du vote final du projet de loi de « simplification ».

www.lemonde.fr

 

[Fisherman]

French MPs vote to scrap low-emission zones https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0mrpl2208no

 

[Canalsman]

A retrograde step in my view.

 

[Firthy]

At last some common sense

 

[Robmac]

I sort of agree with both of the last 2 posts.

Who knows what the best system would be?

 

[Fisherman]

At last some common sense

Thousands of people living in French cities will die prematurely if they go ahead with this, and many more will suffer poor health throughout their lives. This has nothing to do with global warming, even less to do with common sense. it’s about improving the very air that people breathe in.

French measures are far less restrictive than ours, only cars registered before 1997 being completely banned. We banned the burning of coal in our cities for the same reasons, this is a retrograde step. Since the introduction of LEZs health stats have improved, the issue of health is indisputable.

 

[Robmac]

Thousands of people living in French cities will die prematurely if they go ahead with this, and many more will suffer poor health throughout their lives. This has nothing to do with global warming, even less to do with common sense. it’s about improving the very air that people breathe in.

It's the system of hitting the people who HAVE to go there and can't afford it that riles me Bill, seems to me that it's a sort of 'it's ok to pollute as long as you pay' thing rather than any genuine concern.

 

[Fisherman]

It's the system of hitting the people who HAVE to go there and can't afford it that riles me Bill, seems to me that it's a sort of 'it's ok to pollute as long as you pay' thing rather than any genuine concern.

Finding a balance between people’s health and people’s liberty is not easy, I do accept that point. The french measures were less restrictive than ours. But people have to be encouraged not to drive heavy polluting vehicles in built up areas. The carrot being the payments offered by the French government to help people do this, and the stick payments for those who don’t. And don’t forget some who are in favour of this will die prematurely, or suffer poor health.
But what the French seem to be deciding is to completely ignore the fact that this will lead to poorer health, abdicating any responsibility for the consequences this will lead to. I honestly don’t reckon this is about punishment, removing liberty, or a means of raising taxes. It’s as I say an attempt to find the correct balance between health and liberty. But it seems that the French have decided that people’s health should play no part whatsoever, all that matters is the right to drive heavily polluting vehicles through heavily built up areas regardless of the affect on people’s health, many of whom don’t even own a car. Children and the elderly will suffer most. I am shocked at this, I never thought this could happen in a country like France.

 

[mark61]

Sit in traffic, on a bicycle behind a euro 6 car going through active regen and you'd be a fool if you didn't question everything you are told regarding cleaner air due to LEZ's

 

[Robmac]

Finding a balance between people’s health and people’s liberty is not easy, I do accept that point. The french measures were less restrictive than ours. But people have to be encouraged not to drive heavy polluting vehicles in built up areas. The carrot being the payments offered by the French government to help people do this, and the stick payments for those who don’t. And don’t forget some who are in favour of this will die prematurely, or suffer poor health.
But what the French seem to be deciding is to completely ignore the fact that this will lead to poorer health, abdicating any responsibility for the consequences this will lead to. I honestly don’t reckon this is about punishment, removing liberty, or a means of raising taxes. It’s as I say an attempt to find the correct balance between health and liberty. But it seems that the French have decided that people’s health should play no part whatsoever, all that matters is the right to drive heavily polluting vehicles through heavily built up areas regardless of the affect on people’s health, many of whom don’t even own a car. Children and the elderly will suffer most.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that Bill and I don't know what the 'carrots' involved are but they are obviously not effective enough. The tourism industry will come into play though although personally I have no desire to drive into built up areas for leisure, if I HAVE to go into London for example I take the train which is far cheaper than driving and parking anyway.

I still think that they only pay lip service to this issue though (and other pollution issues). If they really wanted to stop people dieing through pollution they could start with completely banning supersports cars from these areas (how many ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini etc. do you see in the major cities?) followed by Motorhomes, large 4x4s etc. and anything else that is causing the problems, but they won't as this will upset the wealthy.

Why do they even make cars that are designed to burn huge amounts of fuel so that they can achieve speeds of 200 mph+ anymore? - is the pleasure of the rich more important than the health of the masses? - of course it is! (playing Devil's advocate again here!).

Anyhoo, I do my bit, I don't drive in cities unless I have to and when I do I use my AdBlue car.

 

[Robmac]

Sit in traffic, on a bicycle behind a euro 6 car going through active regen and you'd be a fool if you didn't question everything you are told regarding cleaner air due to LEZ's

Never had that pleasure Mark - what happens during active regen?

 

[barryd]

I'm sure I replied to this thread late last night drunk but either I didn't press "reply" or it got deleted. Can anyone remember what I said?

 

[mark61]

Never had that pleasure Mark - what happens during active regen?

You cough a lot and move away quickly, you are getting weeks of pollutants in your lungs in one go.

Or did you mean what happens to the car during active regen?

 

[Robmac]

You cough a lot and move away quickly, you are getting weeks of pollutants in your lungs in one go.

Or did you mean what happens to the car during active regen?

No your first line answered my question. It's all good news innit!

 

[Robmac]

I'm sure I replied to this thread late last night drunk but either I didn't press "reply" or it got deleted. Can anyone remember what I said?

I can Barry but I can't repeat it, obviously Phil has removed it now.

I'm surprised you're not banned this morning!

 

[Fisherman]

Sit in traffic, on a bicycle behind a euro 6 car going through active regen and you'd be a fool if you didn't question everything you are told regarding cleaner air due to LEZ's

I reckon you would be an even bigger fool if you thought that these measures which are actually politically counter productive and unpopular were being put in place to simply tax people Mark. The current measures are not perfect, because they involve compromise, and these compromises are subjective, and therefore debatable. But to abdicate all responsibility for people’s health in a civilised country is not what should be happening.
Measures taken in London and other cities have demonstrably improved health.
Over the years with older vehicles being phased out, the need for LEZ would have become untenable, and they would have been phased out. But we are at least 20 years away from reaching that point.

 

[barryd]

I can Barry but I can't repeat it, obviously Phil has removed it now.

I'm surprised you're not banned this morning!

Yeah yeah! I found it. It wasn't on here, it was on another forum

Probably best I don't repeat it. I do think this is a backward step though and I've just ordered my crit air sticker! Got awarded a 2.

Then there is this!

France to ban smoking on beaches, parks and near schools

Smoking will be banned in all outdoor places that can be frequented by children from July, France's health minister said.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Fisherman]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that Bill and I don't know what the 'carrots' involved are but they are obviously not effective enough. The tourism industry will come into play though although personally I have no desire to drive into built up areas for leisure, if I HAVE to go into London for example I take the train which is far cheaper than driving and parking anyway.

I still think that they only pay lip service to this issue though (and other pollution issues). If they really wanted to stop people dieing through pollution they could start with completely banning supersports cars from these areas (how many ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini etc. do you see in the major cities?) followed by Motorhomes, large 4x4s etc. and anything else that is causing the problems, but they won't as this will upset the wealthy.

Why do they even make cars that are designed to burn huge amounts of fuel so that they can achieve speeds of 200 mph+ anymore? - is the pleasure of the rich more important than the health of the masses? - of course it is! (playing Devil's advocate again here!).

Anyhoo, I do my bit, I don't drive in cities unless I have to and when I do I use my AdBlue car.

I believe that the French government offers to buy older vehicles and offered well above the market value Rob.

Here’s what they were offered.

Yes, the French government has offered compensation, in the form of grants, to encourage drivers of older, polluting cars to trade them in for newer, cleaner vehicles. These grants, known as the "prime à la conversion," were implemented on January 1, 2018, and the amount received depends on the household's financial situation, with non-taxed households potentially receiving larger amounts than taxed households.

 

[Fisherman]

Yeah yeah! I found it. It wasn't on here, it was on another forum

Probably best I don't repeat it. I do think this is a backward step though and I've just ordered my crit air sticker! Got awarded a 2.

Then there is this!

France to ban smoking on beaches, parks and near schools

Smoking will be banned in all outdoor places that can be frequented by children from July, France's health minister said.

www.bbc.co.uk

Dementia is setting in Barry, possibly it’s all that pollution down in the Lake District

 

[Robmac]

Yeah yeah! I found it. It wasn't on here, it was on another forum

Probably best I don't repeat it. I do think this is a backward step though and I've just ordered my crit air sticker! Got awarded a 2.

Then there is this!

France to ban smoking on beaches, parks and near schools

Smoking will be banned in all outdoor places that can be frequented by children from July, France's health minister said.

www.bbc.co.uk

That won't go down well in France Barry.

I thought it was compulsory to smoke there.