Proposed Ban on Overnight Parking Glenmore, Cairngorms (Highland Council)

[wildebus]

Most wrinkles are couples and if using hook up the price goes up. I know it’s in a prime location but since it came under the name of Forest Holidays not Forestry Commission the prices have gone up considerably.

both are possible - but the OP was quoting the price for a single person, but at the very highest bracket. I am just pointing out the other end of the price scale.

 

[Fisherman]

I am talking theroretical.
take your new Motorhome ... If you placed the order for that today, you would be paying significantly more for it then you are. And that is because you agreed the price at the time of the order. If the prices went DOWN, I don't think they would be reducing the price and your option there would probably be to pay the price agree or cancel the order and lose the deposit. But in this case, you benefitted from securing an agreed price.
While it may be annoying I don't see a booking for a campsite is any different. But it went the other way.

I am not a member of a dealer David, I am of the CCC.
And as I pointed out in order to get these discounts you had to book online.
Some elderly people who booked over the phone when these offers were on did not get these discounts.
Do you reckon that’s fair, I don’t.
Also you are correct Rapido have generously agreed to hold my price even though my contract allows for price increases. But others have not. The dealer informed me that Malibu, and Roller team have not done the same.

The big clubs want us to book well in advance, it’s makes life easier for them, they should not then in effect penalise those who have done so. I know I am wasting my time, I expect to get nowhere, but I just feel I should register my disappointment.

 

[barryd]

Why would prices go up by 30% David when they are struggling to fill their sites.
In effect those of us who planned our trips months in advance are paying 30% more on certain sites than others. Some people are not great with computers, and will miss out. But last year I was charged an additional £2 a night by the other lot after booking, because they applied a surcharge for EHU.

The prices set were to high thus they were struggling to fill their sites, the 30% discount should have been retrospective for all of their MEMBERS. And that’s my point we’re not simply customers but paying members of the CCC. It’s wrong in my honest opinion to have members paying different rates on a site due to when they booked. Also if you booked these sites over the phone these discounts did not apply. They should set the same price for all of their members regardless of how and when they booked.

I think that's often the case that stuff is cheaper if done online. Less administration costs. It makes sense really.

 

[Fisherman]

I think that's often the case that stuff is cheaper if done online. Less administration costs. It makes sense really.

Normally there is no difference Barry, I could have booked my trip over the phone at the same price. These offers came out months after we had booked.

In future I won’t book well in advance, and if many others do likewise they will have serious issues. Penalising folk for booking months in advance seems counterproductive to me.

 

[maingate]

So far so good since June but maybe that's why we need more relaxed basic sites. Not necessarily car park Aires that councils have provided having gone through years of meetings and all that palaver. Just a farmers field with a tap and somewhere to empty the waste. I've seen a few pop up sites like this on our travels but they are catering for tents as well so they have built temporary showers, provided toilets etc and they are £25 a night.

What im talking about is similar but just for motorhomes. No facilities required. Like a basic CL but not affiliated with a club and not restricted to just five vans. They exist all over Europe so why not here?

There must be shed loads of farms and crofts in Scotland that could do this as well as England and Wales. Maybe there wasn't the demand a few years ago but there would be now.

They cannot exist in that form due to the 1960's Caravan Act which restricts camping on private land (with landowner permission) to 28 days per year.

ie: One Motorhome/Caravan for 28 nights ....... or 28 for one night. PER YEAR REMEMBER!

 

[barryd]

They cannot exist in that form due to the 1960's Caravan Act which restricts camping on private land (with landowner permission) to 28 days per year.

ie: One Motorhome/Caravan for 28 nights ....... or 28 for one night. PER YEAR REMEMBER!

So that's a law that needs changing then. However how are these pop up sites getting round it. There is one literally 200 yards down the lane from where I am right now in south Devon. It's packed up today. I think it was just there for six weeks for the summer hols.

It seems a simple solution to me. People are whinging all over internet land about too many motorhomes, farmers are always up for making a few extra quid. There's your answer.

 

[maingate]

So that's a law that needs changing then. However how are these pop up sites getting round it. There is one literally 200 yards down the lane from where I am right now in south Devon. It's packed up today. I think it was just there for six weeks for the summer hols.

It seems a simple solution to me. People are whinging all over internet land about too many motorhomes, farmers are always up for making a few extra quid. There's your answer.

It is just a temporary relaxation of the rules. An outdated Law still applies.

 

[Biggarmac]

It was changed to 56 nights after Covid. It then changed back to 28. Earlier this year English regs were again changed to 56 days. The other countries stayed at 28 days.

They cannot exist in that form due to the 1960's Caravan Act which restricts camping on private land (with landowner permission) to 28 days per year.

ie: One Motorhome/Caravan for 28 nights ....... or 28 for one night. PER YEAR REMEMBER!

 

[barryd]

It was changed to 56 nights after Covid. It then changed back to 28. Earlier this year English regs were again changed to 56 days. The other countries stayed at 28 days.

So if they can change it at the drop of the hat then why not just change it permanently?

No doubt MPs are getting in in the neck from both sides. Campaign for Aires etc and the usual Angry or Mayfair types complaining about huge numbers of motorhomes parking up all over the place. Sounds like something both sides would welcome.

 

[Biggarmac]

So if they can change it at the drop of the hat then why not just change it permanently?

No doubt MPs are getting in in the neck from both sides. Campaign for Aires etc and the usual Angry or Mayfair types complaining about huge numbers of motorhomes parking up all over the place. Sounds like something both sides would welcome.

It probably is a permanent change in England. Its not something that CAMpRA is involved in as their campaign is for facilities for fully self-contained Motor Caravans (DVLA Description). The 1960 Act for caravan sites is very out of date and there have been quite a few revisions to the guidance over the years. It would be good if there was guidance showing the difference from towed caravans from motorhomes/campervans. We are still all lumped together in UK law.

 

[barryd]

It probably is a permanent change in England. Its not something that CAMpRA is involved in as their campaign is for facilities for fully self-contained Motor Caravans (DVLA Description). The 1960 Act for caravan sites is very out of date and there have been quite a few revisions to the guidance over the years. It would be good if there was guidance showing the difference from towed caravans from motorhomes/campervans. We are still all lumped together in UK law.

Only in the UK eh? Germany, France, Italy etc seem to have no problem with this and presumably all have their own laws. Stayed on loads of farm Aires or just little motorhome only sites behind restaurants etc, even one at a hotel in Slovenia.

There should indeed be a separate law for self contained vans.

 

[alcam]

So far so good since June but maybe that's why we need more relaxed basic sites. Not necessarily car park Aires that councils have provided having gone through years of meetings and all that palaver. Just a farmers field with a tap and somewhere to empty the waste. I've seen a few pop up sites like this on our travels but they are catering for tents as well so they have built temporary showers, provided toilets etc and they are £25 a night.

What im talking about is similar but just for motorhomes. No facilities required. Like a basic CL but not affiliated with a club and not restricted to just five vans. They exist all over Europe so why not here?

There must be shed loads of farms and crofts in Scotland that could do this as well as England and Wales. Maybe there wasn't the demand a few years ago but there would be now.

I do agree. Think these basic facilities are all most of us want .
Yes I have seen a few places charging, I think , far too much .
Pubs charging for parking when you are having a meal and a drink boil my wotsit

 

[barryd]

I do agree. Think these basic facilities are all most of us want .
Yes I have seen a few places charging, I think , far too much .
Pubs charging for parking when you are having a meal and a drink boil my wotsit

I've never understood that. Often CLs or motorhome parking that are joined to pubs are more expensive than ones that are not!

You think they would be free or at least say a tenner where you get that back if you order some food. Why would you want to stay at a pub if you weren't going to use it?

 

[Robmac]

Just need to know where to go. They’re stopping people parking on the road side. Don’t see an issue with that. Go and park at Loch an Eilein for a fraction of the cost and peace away from the hordes.

Lovely place Cal.

 

[kaz]

Why would you park on the roadside? It’s a busy road for a start and would think not a great place to sleep. I totally understand why they want to ban overnight parking on this stretch of road because the sheep once they see one van just file in behind turning the roadside into an unofficial campsite with all the cassette emptying rumours and sh1tting in the bushes stories it brings with it.
I wish people would use more common sense when parking but I fear there’s a lot like Kaz who think it’s cool to overnight at the side of the road in one of Scotlands most beautiful but busy places.

This isn't a particularly busy road as it only goes to ski centre and there is no sheep about ,the area we park is a designated parking place are you sure you know which area this topic of conversation is??

 

[fergie1061]

Lodged formal complaint myself, had a reply acknowledging that! Urge as many as possible to object. Pointed out the ridiculous costs involved not only there but at regular campsites, with many doubling or trebling what cost was pre COVID / breks* it!!!

 

[Cie]

So far so good since June but maybe that's why we need more relaxed basic sites. Not necessarily car park Aires that councils have provided having gone through years of meetings and all that palaver. Just a farmers field with a tap and somewhere to empty the waste. I've seen a few pop up sites like this on our travels but they are catering for tents as well so they have built temporary showers, provided toilets etc and they are £25 a night.

What im talking about is similar but just for motorhomes. No facilities required. Like a basic CL but not affiliated with a club and not restricted to just five vans. They exist all over Europe so why not here?

There must be shed loads of farms and crofts in Scotland that could do this as well as England and Wales. Maybe there wasn't the demand a few years ago but there would be now.

There are quite a few of these private Aires across the UK thanks to CAMpRA campaigning.

Campra now issue our exemption certificates so people like ourselves with small parcels of land and a tap can offer overnights to up to 5 vans - no memberships needed. For example, we are Glenbuchty Aire Fraserburgh and are £5 a night per van. (We also offer cassette waste disposal for an extra £5 fee - drop in service too - as our tank emptying waste in NE Scotland is ridiculous). We’ve kept this as our charges for two years now. We are no frills but have sea views and hard standing so open all year, plus a friendly welcome

Do use Aires like us as our income if full every night would be minimal and some I know don’t get many customers so it would be a shame to lose any.

Here’s a link to find us;
CAMpRA Accredited Aires

Advanced Search

www.searchforsites.co.uk

There’s a wide variety of us so worth looking at. Costs generally about a tenner on average.

It’s also worth noting that to be a CAMpRA Aire we have to get an exemption certificate and PLI insurance just like a CL so we’re a legal place to stop, unlike certain known stopovers which some councils have starting clamping down on because they’ve been letting people stay (so with owners’ permission) but outside of permitted planning which is one van for a max of 2 nights for up to 28 days a years for most sites. Pop ups in England are now allowed a bit longer 42 - 60 days but they are aimed primarily at tents, have to provide onsite toilets and sites should apply for licences for Motorhomes so it’s hard for even them to keep prices really low.

 

[barryd]

There are quite a few of these private Aires across the UK thanks to CAMpRA campaigning.

Campra now issue our exemption certificates so people like ourselves with small parcels of land and a tap can offer overnights to up to 5 vans - no memberships needed. For example, we are Glenbuchty Aire Fraserburgh and are £5 a night per van. (We also offer cassette waste disposal for an extra £5 fee - drop in service too - as our tank emptying waste in NE Scotland is ridiculous). We’ve kept this as our charges for two years now. We are no frills but have sea views and hard standing so open all year, plus a friendly welcome

Do use Aires like us as our income if full every night would be minimal and some I know don’t get many customers so it would be a shame to lose any.

Here’s a link to find us;
CAMpRA Accredited Aires

Advanced Search

www.searchforsites.co.uk

There’s a wide variety of us so worth looking at. Costs generally about a tenner on average.

It’s also worth noting that to be a CAMpRA Aire we have to get an exemption certificate and PLI insurance just like a CL so we’re a legal place to stop, unlike certain known stopovers which some councils have starting clamping down on because they’ve been letting people stay (so with owners’ permission) but outside of permitted planning which is one van for a max of 2 nights for up to 28 days a years for most sites. Pop ups in England are now allowed a bit longer 42 - 60 days but they are aimed primarily at tents, have to provide onsite toilets and sites should apply for licences for Motorhomes so it’s hard for even them to keep prices really low.

Yes I am aware and that's great but the five van sites are basically CLs with the same restrictions and as you explain the pop up sites are temporary and have to provide facilities.

It's the legislation that needs changing. If farms and other places across Europe can set up private motorhome Aires where twenty or thirty vans can get on then why can't we?

For a kick off if a farmer thought he could open up a field to those kind of numbers they would be much more likely to be viable as a business and would crop up all over.

 

[Cie]

Yes I am aware and that's great but the five van sites are basically CLs with the same restrictions and as you explain the pop up sites are temporary and have to provide facilities.

It's the legislation that needs changing. If farms and other places across Europe can set up private motorhome Aires where twenty or thirty vans can get on then why can't we?

For a kick off if a farmer thought he could open up a field to those kind of numbers they would be much more likely to be viable as a business and would crop up all over.

You’re right as in the UK much of the various relevant planning legislation and camping acts etc and their definitions eg of motor caravan are definitely outdated, with no UK ‘Aire’ type facility recognised.

I suppose there are complexities and fairness to consider given that campsites over 5 vans currently have to get licenses and have many costs associated to do so ensure their standards so a farmer being allowed 20 vans without the same stringency would not be fair competition. There’s also H&S to consider as licensed and exempted sites have to meet standards and show evidence of insurances and safety checks to their exempting body/council, so a free for all on opening up land without checks or proper regulation could potentially sidestep this and in the long run cause safety issues.

It’s worth looking at what CAMpRA are doing if you haven’t as they are trying to campaign by working with councils and government and in just a couple of years have achieved a lot, so perhaps in the future things might change even more. As with everything for this to happen they need support.

 

[barryd]

You’re right as in the UK much of the various relevant planning legislation and camping acts etc and their definitions eg of motor caravan are definitely outdated, with no UK ‘Aire’ type facility recognised.

I suppose there are complexities and fairness to consider given that campsites over 5 vans currently have to get licenses and have many costs associated to do so ensure their standards so a farmer being allowed 20 vans without the same stringency would not be fair competition. There’s also H&S to consider as licensed and exempted sites have to meet standards and show evidence of insurances and safety checks to their exempting body/council, so a free for all on opening up land without checks or proper regulation could potentially sidestep this and in the long run cause safety issues.

It’s worth looking at what CAMpRA are doing if you haven’t as they are trying to campaign by working with councils and government and in just a couple of years have achieved a lot, so perhaps in the future things might change even more. As with everything for this to happen they need support.

You’re right as in the UK much of the various relevant planning legislation and camping acts etc and their definitions eg of motor caravan are definitely outdated, with no UK ‘Aire’ type facility recognised.

I suppose there are complexities and fairness to consider given that campsites over 5 vans currently have to get licenses and have many costs associated to do so ensure their standards so a farmer being allowed 20 vans without the same stringency would not be fair competition. There’s also H&S to consider as licensed and exempted sites have to meet standards and show evidence of insurances and safety checks to their exempting body/council, so a free for all on opening up land without checks or proper regulation could potentially sidestep this and in the long run cause safety issues.

It’s worth looking at what CAMpRA are doing if you haven’t as they are trying to campaign by working with councils and government and in just a couple of years have achieved a lot, so perhaps in the future things might change even more. As with everything for this to happen they need support.

It works perfectly well in Europe. France and Germany are great examples. I cant for a minute think their health and safety standards are any more lax than ours.

As for fairness again it works fine over seas. You often see large motorhome Aires right next to campsites or some sites even have Aires attached.

The situation has changed in the UK and there are now many more vans looking for somewhere to stop over. It's the legislation I think that needs to change rather than trying to battle up hill against the legislation we currently have.