Armitages A Frame - Smart Car Fire - Locksmiths Bad Luck Strikes again.

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locksmith if you want pro bono help please get in touch via PM
 
Canalsman said:
I don't believe this is true - the act in question is the Consumer Credit Act and imposes a liability on companies that provide credit facilities such as credit cards.

A debit card is a very different device - any transaction made with a debit card authorises the amount to be debited directly to a bank account. It is the electronic equivalent of writing a cheque (hence the proposed demise of the cheque as a means of payment).
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Just to confirm that ALL money tokens (credit and some debit cards ) are subject to sec 75 CCA
 
Armitages have posted a thread on Re: Smart Car Fire Forums

I lost my temper a bit with my reply. I have got to take Mandy for her Scan today. we were going away tomorrow after the hospital trip, this was why we had the A frame fitted when we did.

Never mind :(
 
The Armitage’s Smart Car Fire. Our reply.

The Armitage’s Smart Car Fire. Our reply.

Firstly, we at Armitage’s Trailers and Towbars are mortified that this has happened and that our customer should have undergone such a frightening experience. In respect of admitting liability, we must follow the instructions of our insurers and abide by the results of official investigations.

Secondly the suggestion by a business rival that Armitage’s have been beset by a-frame cars catching fire is nothing short of a lie and is a bare-faced attempt to make matters worse for us and steal our customers. On the very few occasions where there have been minor problems we have made amends immediately, with no quibbles and no splitting hairs to wriggle out of our responsibilities.

Since we returned to the a-frame market in 2008 as the attitude of the authorities to a-frame towing changed for the better, we have manufactured and fitted well over 500 a-frames. Included in this number is an average of at least one a week to Smart cars and we have NEVER before had a customer’s car burst into flames.

While in no way attempting to make light of Locksmith’s disaster, it is very much a one-off incident. We will not stand in the way of a fair outcome in any way whatsoever. We are anxious to have this matter resolved and are in constant touch with our insurers to ensure that proper progress is made.

Wayne, the manager, has made no attempt to avoid Locksmith. We have been particularly busy in these past few weeks which have been shortened by bank holidays. Much time has been taken up trying to sort out this situation as speedily as possible.

Eric Armitage
 
locksmith said:
The Armitage’s Smart Car Fire. Our reply.

Firstly, we at Armitage’s Trailers and Towbars are mortified that this has happened and that our customer should have undergone such a frightening experience. In respect of admitting liability, we must follow the instructions of our insurers and abide by the results of official investigations.

Secondly the suggestion by a business rival that Armitage’s have been beset by a-frame cars catching fire is nothing short of a lie and is a bare-faced attempt to make matters worse for us and steal our customers. On the very few occasions where there have been minor problems we have made amends immediately, with no quibbles and no splitting hairs to wriggle out of our responsibilities.

Since we returned to the a-frame market in 2008 as the attitude of the authorities to a-frame towing changed for the better, we have manufactured and fitted well over 500 a-frames. Included in this number is an average of at least one a week to Smart cars and we have NEVER before had a customer’s car burst into flames.

While in no way attempting to make light of Locksmith’s disaster, it is very much a one-off incident. We will not stand in the way of a fair outcome in any way whatsoever. We are anxious to have this matter resolved and are in constant touch with our insurers to ensure that proper progress is made.

Wayne, the manager, has made no attempt to avoid Locksmith. We have been particularly busy in these past few weeks which have been shortened by bank holidays. Much time has been taken up trying to sort out this situation as speedily as possible.

Eric Armitage
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The Fact is Wayne quite rightly kept saying sorry and that there was a kinked cable and that's what he believes was the problem. He also mentioned a courtesy car and he would call me.. ?????
I was led to believe Armitages were going to sort the problem out and was asked to send receipts etc. to you, this I did.
I believe Wayne was being honest, but has now been told to shut up.
Wayne also thanked me for my understanding, I was being civil and understanding because he had admitted a mistake and seemed very honorable that he was going to put it right.
But now I feel all the doors have been shut in my face and no answers, only to be told your insurance is sorting it out.
I have driven that car the two weeks I've owned it before the fire approximately 700 miles with out a hiccup, in fact the day before I brought the car to you I emailed the previous owner who I purchased the car from to say how delighted I was with it.
The fact is it had only done 2000 miles on a new engine. fitted by Smarts R Us of Nottingham and been serviced is proof enough that the car was in perfect order the fault is with you and you should be showing some loyalty to your customers.
I was supposed to go away on Holiday tomorrow and I'm very bitter that Wayne knows this, I think that's why there was a mention of a courtesy car.
It's a shame as you are in constant contact with your insurers they are not with mine!
I'm quite amazed that you should post on here but I'm impressed also as you can show customers past and future how Armitages do things.

Day 11 Armitages get in contact via Motorhome Forum
 
locksmith said:
The Fact is Wayne quite rightly kept saying sorry and that there was a kinked cable and that's what he believes was the problem. He also mentioned a courtesy car and he would call me.. ?????
I was led to believe Armitages were going to sort the problem out and was asked to send receipts etc. to you, this I did.
I believe Wayne was being honest, but has now been told to shut up.
Wayne also thanked me for my understanding, I was being civil and understanding because he had admitted a mistake and seemed very honorable that he was going to put it right.
But now I feel all the doors have been shut in my face and no answers, only to be told your insurance is sorting it out.
I have driven that car the two weeks I've owned it before the fire approximately 700 miles with out a hiccup, in fact the day before I brought the car to you I emailed the previous owner who I purchased the car from to say how delighted I was with it.
The fact is it had only done 2000 miles on a new engine. fitted by Smarts R Us of Nottingham and been serviced is proof enough that the car was in perfect order the fault is with you and you should be showing some loyalty to your customers.
I was supposed to go away on Holiday tomorrow and I'm very bitter that Wayne knows this, I think that's why there was a mention of a courtesy car.
It's a shame as you are in constant contact with your insurers they are not with mine!
I'm quite amazed that you should post on here but I'm impressed also as you can show customers past and future how Armitages do things.

Day 11 Armitages get in contact via Motorhome Forum
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I lost my temper a bit with my reply. I have got to take Mandy for her Scan today. we were going away tomorrow after the hospital trip, this was why we had the A frame fitted when we did.
I will post on here later if I get any news.
 
joncris said:
It does if you don't believe me contact Visa OR read their T's & C's

OR read this BBC NEWS | Programmes | Working Lunch | Visa debit card refunds AND don't be put off by the call centre staff
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I was very specific in my post. The Chargeback Scheme you refer to for Visa Debit Cards is not enshrined in law but is part of the Scheme of Rules which participating banks subscribe to. Section 75 of the CCA DOES NOT APPLY to Debit Cards. The Chargeback Scheme is similar but more limited in its scope than Section 75 - especially concerning such things as time limits.
 
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John H said:
I was very specific in my post. The Chargeback Scheme you refer to for Visa Debit Cards is not enshrined in law but is part of the Scheme of Rules which participating banks subscribe to. Section 75 of the CCA DOES NOT APPLY to Debit Cards. The Chargeback Scheme is similar but more limited in its scope than Section 75 - especially concerning such things as time limits.
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Enshrined in law or not YOU were misleading the OP into thinking if he used a debit card he wasn't covered when, if a Visa was used, he is. In addition it was/is proposed that all cards be subject to 75
 
I understand the time limit for a claim against Visa is 21 days
 
joncris said:
Enshrined in law or not YOU were misleading the OP into thinking if he used a debit card he wasn't covered when, if a Visa was used, he is. In addition it was/is proposed that all cards be subject to 75
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Thank you for your discussions Barclay's are calling me in the morning as they tried to call this afternoon but I was at Addenbrookes.
 
Bad Customer Service

Customer Service is the thing lacking here.
I heard nothing from Armitages till today through a Forum
The evening of the fire I was apologized to at least half a dozen times, told Mr Armitages would sort out a courtesy car so I would have been able to go away tomorrow 10th on our planned holiday, told what the fault was with the kinked cable and told I would get a full refund.
I was asked by Wayne to send the receipts for the recently purchased Smart Car and other receipts and they would deal with it. This I did and I called Armitages to say it may take a while for some receipts as the originals were burnt in the fire along with my specs Mandy blue disabled badge etc. I asked to speak with Wayne on three occasions and was then told he was with Clients, and I need to deal with there insurance company now.
I called there insurance company last Friday having got that information off Armitages secretary 8 day's after the fire to be told by there insurers that Armitages are not admitting liability.. I was gob smacked and that why I put this on the forums. I have still not heard anything apart from what they posted on the forum Motorhomefact.com.
I have checked my Bank there is no money there!!
I have checked the drive there is no courtesy car there !!
I have checked the answer phone there is no messages there !!


I'm afraid they admitted liability already in front of three people and made promises and have not kept them.
The car and losses do not mean that much to me but the thought I may have to pay more to get insurance because of their mistakes and their lies of compensation means I will never except a 50/50.
I told the man doing the demo that it was dragging before he sent me off home on the A1, I feel he should have checked further but he assured me that all was normal and give it more Welly. Wayne has said after he should not have done that!

I'm going to make this my last post for a couple of day's and give Armitages time to sort their mess out before I go further.
 
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a frames

Hi locksmith

i really feel for you, its so frustrating trying to deal with insurance companies, they just dont seem to care!!!!

perhaps you should try one of the consumer programs on the telly or citizen's advice places, or possibly honest john in the motoring section of the telegraph.

good luck .

best wishes to you both
tranivanman
 
Hi Locksmith,

I emailed Armitages as requested in this forum. In that email I suggested they post a reply for us all to see, which they have. They did not deny anything so I am guessing that they are being instructed by their insurance company. I am sorry but there is nothing much you can do to hurry insurance companies.

Richard
 
joncris said:
Enshrined in law or not YOU were misleading the OP into thinking if he used a debit card he wasn't covered when, if a Visa was used, he is. In addition it was/is proposed that all cards be subject to 75
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I did not say that if you used a debit card you were not covered. I simply pointed out that when you said that debit cards were covered under section 75 you were wrong. If you try to make a claim under the wrong rules you are wasting your time and giving them the opportunity to wriggle out of paying up (as if they needed more excuses!). In particular, your advice could have lead to somebody missing the time deadline for compensation. If you are going to give financial advice then make sure you get it right. Bad advice can be worse than no advice at all.

By the way, in the Visa terms and conditions you have referred to on several ocassions it clearly states that these t&cs may be over-ridden by those of the issuing bank, so it is by no means as simple as you say.
 
Insurance

Locksmith forgive me if I have misunderstood is the Smart car insured if so is it not the case that the insurance company reserve the right to conduct all investigations and dealing regarding the claim.
By posting on public forums you cannot be helping your claim surly the time to do this is if you get an unsatisfactory outcome
 
Smart Fire

Locksmiths. As a Smart Car owner and American Rv owner, I sympathise with you. I bought my 4/2 last autumn to tow behind the wagon. It had already been fitted with a Towtal A Frame for the previous keeper so had already been towed several 1000 miles.
I will be taking my Smart for my first towing trip this next weekend. I will be mindful of your experience for the whole round trip.
If indeed the fire was caused by poor workmanship, then the fitting company should carry the can for the loss of your Smart and in my humble opinion they should also compensate you for inconvenience and stress caused by what seems their negligence.
In the days before the Internet, incidents like this could slip by without anyone else noticing and no harm being done to the supplier /fitting company by way of getting a poor reputation. But now, the web exists, all hell can break out, and it will. In fact it already has. Your experience is spreading faster than the fire did through you poor Smart.

I believe Another poster has put a link onto Smart Mania for you. I have done the same on Smart Maniacs.
Good luck to you, and please wish your wife well.
 
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Armitages have lost 1 potential customer (me), and the longer this goes on without resolution the more customers they will loose. They're throwing their business down the pan.

Your experience has put me off the whole idea of towing a car.
 
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