Have you thought/realised?

[campervanannie]

I thought from what JVT says it prevents you getting seriously il if you do get CV and he is one of a few so called experts that appear to tell it how it is.

 

[st3v3]

People not having the vaccine is a poor decision in my opinion, but as long as there’s not enough of them to stop us reaching heard immunity it’s not that important, biggest issue is we don’t actually know the percentage of people needed to teach heard immunity with CV-19 so the more non believers we can convert the better.

The thing is, if you can still catch and pass on after being vaccinated, heard immunity doesn't exist full stop.

I thought from what JVT says it prevents you getting seriously il if you do get CV and he is one of a few so called experts that appear to tell it how it is.

That's what we're all hoping for otherwise it's a bit of a waste of time and effort lol.

 

[Boris7]

The thing is, if you can still catch and pass on after being vaccinated, heard immunity doesn't exist full stop.

Your right, you can still catch it and pass it on, but with sufficient growth in immunity due to vaccination and exposure the disease will still be present but less and less lethal, heard immunity, now I’m no medical expert but the WHO are and they seem to thing otherwise https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19, as does the Lancet https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67362031924-3/fulltext

 

[TissyD]

The vaccine should have been made mandatory just like polio and smallpox was. What about all the illegals who won't get it because they don't exist.

 

[st3v3]

....

From your link:

To safely achieve herd immunity against COVID-19, a substantial proportion of a population would need to be vaccinated, lowering the overall amount of virus able to spread in the whole population.

That's assuming the vaccine stops you getting, and spreading, the virus.

As far as we know at the moment, it doesn't.

 

[Boris7]

From your link:


That's assuming the vaccine stops you getting, and spreading, the virus.

As far as we know at the moment, it doesn't.

No the vaccine will hopefully stop you from dying from it, and that gives your immune system a chance to build anti body’s, over a period of time, we should all become immune as Anti body’s get stronger etc...

 

[izwozral]

I’ll be opposing any movement to single out or restrict people who haven’t had the vaccine, regardless of me having it.

Besides, you can’t label all the people who won’t/can't have it as “anti vaxer’s.”

As to traveling in the near future, might as well chuck ten scenarios in a hat and pull one out.

There are some people who can't have the vaccine because of health reasons, my comments are aimed at those who are anti- vaxxer's just because they are ill informed, ignorant or just plain stupid.

Any idea of foreign travel this year is probably dead in the water, maybe next year too?

 

[Minisorella]

The vaccine doesn't stop you getting CV, and passing it on.

So, as restrictions about meeting other people get lifted the virus will spread through EVERYONE.

That's ok if everyone has had the vaccine, and it's 100 percent effective. Ooops.

So I think there will be a fair few at risk people that because it's not 100 percent are still going to suffer. And then the lot who won't have the vaccine thinking they are not at risk, some will be without knowing it.

Travel: It won't matter a hoot about whether you've had the vaccine or not, you could still be a risk to the country you're entering so unless they've also vaccinated eveyone they'll probably still have restrictions like quarantine in place that you'll have to follow.

I know this seems a bit of a negative post but:

I'd like to have my thinking changed if someone can show me why any of that is wrong.

I like to just know where I am rather than looking forward to that Easter trip to France - it isn't going to happen...

If anyone reading, or people they know, thinks they don't need the vaccine because they probably won't get it. You/they WILL catch CV. Perhaps my post will sway you.

Discuss lol.

All really good points Steve and I'd only add/clarify that vaccinated people who are alerted of close contact or tested positive for COVID still have to isolate as usual and everyone still has to socially distance according to whatever rules are in place. I so wish the media journalists and their interviewees with vested interests would remember all this!

The 'scramble' for vaccination queue-jumping is getting really distastefully embarrassing because of this lack of understanding. There may be a very slight reduction in infection and transmission but this is by no means enough to avoid them completely. We all know the main function of the vaccine is to prevent serious illness, hospitalisation and death in those who are susceptible through age or vulnerability, etc... and we know this works because my understanding is that no-one who was vaccinated in the trials etc and went on to test positive for COVID subsequently died or needed to be hospitalised - anywhere in the world! This is why I'm incredibly irritated by the suggestion that teachers, police and other groups should be put forward as worthy of the vaccine ahead of tiers 5-9. Their argument is that they're public-facing and the vaccine would make them and their workplace safer and maintain full staffing levels. Knowing that they can still catch COVID and pass it on - plus still be required to self isolate for the usual reasons - makes these arguments total nonsense... and shameful.

The JCVI tier list was worked out expertly to allow for every outcome of vaccinating or not vaccinating people in a certain order. With the basic premise of preventing hospitalisations and deaths, the tiers were as perfect as they could get them. If any of the tiers are queue-jumped, my poor tv and radio will get even more of ear-bashing than they've gotten used to lately!

 

[st3v3]

No the vaccine will hopefully stop you from dying from it, and that gives your immune system a chance to build anti body’s, over a period of time, we should all become immune as Anti body’s get stronger etc...

Again, you're assuming getting it stops you from passing it on in the future. Our current understanding is that this is not true.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Again, you're assuming getting it stops you from passing it on in the future. Our current understanding is that this is not true.

No, they just don't have sufficient data yet.
Whether it simply reduces transmission by a percentage, or stops transmission entirely, they can't say as too early to tell.
That's my understanding from JVT's explanation etc.

 

[st3v3]

No, they just don't have sufficient data yet.

Agreed.

What I've seen, which only gives half the story, is that is two different sets of retirement flats I do maintenance at have had vacinnated residents test positive. This is in the last week or so, and their vaccine jab was ages ago.

Problems with that are:

False positive,
Only one dose,
We don't know if they could pass it on.

All it does hint at is that we can't yet say vacinnated people are "safe" and the dropout of that is that we can't say heard immunity WILL happen.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

All it does hint at is that we can't yet say vacinnated people are "safe" and the dropout of that is that we can't say heard immunity WILL happen.

Yes, and we have only vaccinated a relatively small percentage of the population to date.
Only Israel has gone down the 'whole nation' route and are miles ahead.
Let's see what the data/scientific results are from that down the line.

Patience, patience and a little bit more patience...

 

[Boris7]

Again, you're assuming getting it stops you from passing it on in the future. Our current understanding is that this is not true.

I‘m assuming nothing of the sort.

You and I are at risk of violently AGREEING here, there Is zero% chance that the vaccine will stop the virus being passed on, if you have a vaccine injected into your body then that will NOT protect you from touching a shopping trolley handle with the virus on, or from picking up a pear in the super market, transferring the virus to the pear, someone coming along and touching or buying the pear and getting or passing the virus on, it simply can’t do that.

But what it can do is tell your immune system to start protecting you, so when you come into contact with the virus your body is ready to fight it, you’ll still get it, and still transmit it if your not careful, but hopefully it won’t kill you or put you in ICU.

Have a look here https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/how-do-vaccines-work

The more people are vaccinated the more we are protected, not from getting covid, but from being serious ill or dying of covid

 

[rugbyken]

a friend of ours babs 84 had her vaccine 2 days before christmas was visited by her son mid fifties for birthday on boxing day he became very ill with covid a few days later hospitalised etc babs obviously caught it from him but has only been ill if even 3-4 days of the vaccine has given her that much protection it’s good enough for me ,
like others can’t see us able to get out for a few months and given the present state of vaccination chaos in europe don’t think we will/should be allowed there for several more

 

[trevskoda]

I thought the jury was still out on whether any of the vaccines stopped you catching it or passing it on.

The one to be released may do and ahead of the first two.

 

[argoose]

The vaccine should have been made mandatory just like polio and smallpox was. What about all the illegals who won't get it because they don't exist.

Absolutely gobsmacked. No one should be forced to have something injected into their bodies against their will.

 

[Boris7]

Absolutely gobsmacked. No one should be forced to have something injected into their bodies against their will.

so she keeps telling me

 

[2cv]

Absolutely gobsmacked. No one should be forced to have something injected into their bodies against their will.

This has been the case for may years to enter some countries, Yellow Fever just as an example. This is for general protection as the vaccine makes retransmission less likely. Already some transport providers have said that to use their services evidence of covid vaccination will be required. (Quantas and Saga cruises as examples.)

 

[GinaRon]

I have just had my vaccine this afternoon and I got a STICKER saying so (haven't had one of them since school) I had the vaccine so if I did get it hopefully it wont be bad.

 

[antiquesam]

This has been the case for may years to enter some countries, Yellow Fever just as an example. This is for general protection as the vaccine makes retransmission less likely. Already some transport providers have said that to use their services evidence of covid vaccination will be required. (Quantas and Saga cruises as examples.)

In all the instances you highlight are a matter of personal choice. You don't have to travel with a particular airline or holiday company nor go to a country that requires a yellow fever certificate.