Winter tyres V Snow socks

oldpolicehouse

Guest
Hello
Was in northern Bavaria last week. Saturday it snowed heavy all day and most of the night.We were leaving Sunday. Typical German efficiency main roads and autobahns were quickly cleared . Where we were parked was about 500 metres from the main road at the bottom of a fairly steep hill in a snow drift about 18 inches deep.The rest of the road had about 8 inches of snow on. I watched the residents of the road trying to get out. Only the 4 wheel drive vehicles could make it.. One fairly new Mercedes slipped all the way back across a junction and came to rest against a fence. At about 10.30 after another caffeine fix I thought sod it I'l put the snow socks on and give it a go. Cleared the snow from the front of the van and set off. Got to the main road no problem whatsoever and took the socks off as soon as we were on tarmac. I spend a lot of time in Germany both winter and summer and I don't have winter tyres. I won't be buying them either. I followed the recent thread on winter tyres and thought a lot of the posts were tripe especially the ones about German police on the lookout for UK registered vehicles,pulling them over and fining them for each tyre. Believe me the police are too busy keeping the roads clear of crashed German cars. I've been in snow several times in Germany and I can tell you winter tyres are not as effective as some seem to think.I also carry snow chains but unless you are off to the mountains socks are brilliant (Auto sock) not the cheapo ones on fleabay. So easy to fit and remove even on an Aclass with deep wheel arches.Off to Germany and Austria in February.

Blue skies
 
If chains don't fit

I believe that there is insufficient clearance for fitting chains on my Mk 7 Transit based van, but I did buy snowsocks.

Do you know if the legal requirement for chains is waived if socks are used when chains cannot be used? It might not have been snowing when we arrive somewhere but could find we are snowed in later. Or would we be obliged to stay put until it melts?
 
snow socks vs chains

Being Australian. snow is a real unknown to us and we have managed to avoid anything more than a flutter so far. We are keen to head for the Pyrenees and Andorra. Would we need chains to get to and around Andorra or would socks be as good? Thanks, Rob
 
Having just returned from val d'isere, I had winter tyres fitted for the first time and the grip difference was great. U have used snow socks before, they are great for a short snowy section but extended driving or patchy will soon ruin them. I did approx 30km in chains due to intermittent snow/ice and tarmac. Socks would have been ruined. Moving around the resort I didn't use chains and tyres were great.
It would appear French police are happy with socks but personally I will always go winter tyres and chains.
 
matttransitconnect said:
Having just returned from val d'isere, I had winter tyres fitted for the first time and the grip difference was great. U have used snow socks before, they are great for a short snowy section but extended driving or patchy will soon ruin them. I did approx 30km in chains due to intermittent snow/ice and tarmac. Socks would have been ruined. Moving around the resort I didn't use chains and tyres were great.
It would appear French police are happy with socks but personally I will always go winter tyres and chains.
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same old story. People who have never used winter tyres will always point out that they are not required.
You are in the position the give a real world experience and I can only repeat what I have posted many times:
PROPER winter tyres do make a difference. Period.
 
I can also vouch that proper winter tyres do indeed make a huge difference. As for the police in snowy parts of Europe stopping UK motorists to check if they have snow tyres I doubt that that is going to happen anywhere. However, what I do know is that in Switzerland at least, if you cause an accident or block a road because you do not have chains (or probably socks) on, and then it is discovered that you do not have winter tyres either, you can expect the book to be thrown at you and your insurance will be invalidated. I know this as my in-laws are Swiss, and not complying with these laws (in fact most laws in Switzerland) is considered a very serious offence.
 
Teutone said:
same old story. People who have never used winter tyres will always point out that they are not required.
You are in the position the give a real world experience and I can only repeat what I have posted many times:
PROPER winter tyres do make a difference. Period.
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You seem to imply have no experience of driving on winter tyres.
I have lots. I drive my daughters and son in laws cars in Germany every winter. You are correct in saying they make a difference but not as much as some would have you believe. On any sort of hill when the snow compacts and you only have a two wheel drive car you will need chains or snow socks.We recently had the help of four neighbours to get my daughters car off the drive.Its one of the things I like about spending time in Germany when it snows heavy they just get on with it. I'm back there in February. Of course its only human nature if you have invested several hundred pounds in winter tyres you may have a tendency to exaggerate their performance. Just writing the word period after a sentence does not make it true.

Blue skies
 
oldpolicehouse said:
You seem to imply have no experience of driving on winter tyres.
I have lots. I drive my daughters and son in laws cars in Germany every winter. You are correct in saying they make a difference but not as much as some would have you believe. On any sort of hill when the snow compacts and you only have a two wheel drive car you will need chains or snow socks.We recently had the help of four neighbours to get my daughters car off the drive.Its one of the things I like about spending time in Germany when it snows heavy they just get on with it. I'm back there in February. Of course its only human nature if you have invested several hundred pounds in winter tyres you may have a tendency to exaggerate their performance. Just writing the word period after a sentence does not make it true.

Blue skies
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Well next time I will call you and you can explain to all those poor souls stranded on the m25 why I can drive up the hill at J17 with a rear wheel drive BMW 5 series and they can't even get up with a 4x4 or front wheel drive. I almost felt quilty leaving everybody behind.

I am a realist. I do not splash out my hard earned money just for a name or brand. But I have driven with winter tyres for many many years.
You do get what you pay for. And even the expensive and branded winter tyres drop performance quite quickly after 3-4 winters of use.

So even with a healthy looking winter tyre with plenty of thread showing, you may not have the best tyre for the job if they are old.

And don't get fooled to think that every car in Germany is fitted with proper winter tyres. It has become bad practise from tyre manufacturers to stick "M&S" on just anything but winter tyres to comply with the law. A lot of people have to watch their money, so this is the only option to comply with the law they have.

I don't give money away easily but I know when I have to open the wallet to get what I need.
 
5dotsonamap said:
Being Australian. snow is a real unknown to us and we have managed to avoid anything more than a flutter so far. We are keen to head for the Pyrenees and Andorra. Would we need chains to get to and around Andorra or would socks be as good? Thanks, Rob
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I am off next week to my apartment in the French Pyrenees at Font-Romeu and we are not far from Andorra also - you do need chains or their equivalent. We have both chains and autosocks, the socks are easier to fit especially at night or in really foul weather, the chains are more robust but create more vibration. Always stop after about 100-150 metres to make sure the socks are centered properly or the chains have not slackened and take them off as soon as you hit clean road. Always wash the socks out after a days use and dry them before putting in the vehicle.

As to legality here is the quote from AutoSock snow sock FAQ | AutoSock frequently asked questions the Autosocks FAQ Andorra is not mentioned so you may need chains, so far we have not been stopped on visits to Andorra which surpised us given the conditions you can meet at Pas de la Casa

[h=3]Q12 Are AutoSock approved for use in the Alps, where "snow chains" are compulsory?[/h]AutoSock have been approved since 2010 for use in France as an alternative to metal snow chains where the B26 snow chain signs require snow chains to be carried. Visitors to France will need todownload a sticker to fix to the AutoSock storage bag, and are also advised to download the relevant details, taken from the Gendarmerie website, and AutoSock's press release.
AutoSock can also legally be used when snowchains must be carried or fitted in the Czech Republic, Germany, and Slovenia.
 
My only experience of winter tyres is driving in Finland where they are compulsory from about October to March - buy a car and get two sets of wheels! The tyres have metal studs, they work well in compacted snow but are less effective in soft wet snow.
 
Switzerland and winter tyres...

Contrary to what you say - when I was researching the need for winter tyres for a trip to Czech Republic 2 Christmases ago - one of the most surprising facts I came across was that in Switzerland (of all places) winter tyres were not a legal requirement!
 
Longboard said:
Contrary to what you say - when I was researching the need for winter tyres for a trip to Czech Republic 2 Christmases ago - one of the most surprising facts I came across was that in Switzerland (of all places) winter tyres were not a legal requirement!
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If you were referring to my post I think you will find that I didn't say they were a legal requirement, which you quite correctly point out they are not. However what I did say is that if you are deemed to have caused an accident or block a road because you do not have snow tyres fitted you are going to find yourself in very deep doo-doo. Consequently everybody, and I do mean everybody, in Switzerland will fit their snow tyres religiously at the beginning of the winter.
 
5dotsonamap said:
Being Australian. snow is a real unknown to us and we have managed to avoid anything more than a flutter so far. We are keen to head for the Pyrenees and Andorra. Would we need chains to get to and around Andorra or would socks be as good? Thanks, Rob
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So far as I can see looking at various sites for snow chain sales, none of them will guarantee snow socks to be legal in ski resorts.
 
snow chains are on offer at Lidle at the moment has anybody used them ?. What do you do when your vehicle has double back wheels?
 
Deadsfo said:
snow chains are on offer at Lidle at the moment has anybody used them ?. What do you do when your vehicle has double back wheels?
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Can't find the snow chains on Lidl website. With double rear wheels you take the easy option of course - just chain the outer pair
 
chains have been in our local lidle since about the end of november.

at 20 quid i bought a set for my transit , got no intention of using them on snow but worth a try next time it refuses to move on damp grass.

im beginning to run out of space under the front seats
 
Lidl seem to stock them every November, but once the stores stock has been sold it isn't renewed as far as I can tell. I couldn't find the correct size for our motorhome in any of our local stores.

We've just come back from a ski area in France and the supermarket there stocked chains and rope-type chains - the rope ones were about 60 euros; didn't look at the chains as we already have those.
 
Winter tyres, do they make a difference?
Well mine have yet to be used in snow but they ARE being used in Winter conditions, freezing cold, wet and sleet and the fact that they are designed to work better in the cold than non Winter tyres must be a good thing.
So ask yourself this. Why is it that race cars change tyres for the conditions. Having ridden on 2 wheels on race circuits in torrential rain I know that my non rain tyres would of had me off on the 1st bend, so it IS a fact that the right tyres for the conditions make all the difference. From racing slicks to full wet tyres i've used them in anger. If there's a tyre that makes things safer (or legal) then i'd opt for that personally..... PERIOD.
 
5dotsonamap said:
Being Australian. snow is a real unknown to us and we have managed to avoid anything more than a flutter so far. We are keen to head for the Pyrenees and Andorra. Would we need chains to get to and around Andorra or would socks be as good? Thanks, Rob
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Thanks for all the info, we have made it up to Andorra through some pretty awesome snow! I got chains in Pamiers and it has been the best money I have spent in a long time. You only have to see the long lines of cars that have managed to get stuck to know that chains are good.
 
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