Warranties / Refillable gas systems

oldpolicehouse

Guest
Hello
Just took my Rapido back to the dealers for its first Habitation check (1 year old)
When I picked it up the dealer said I need a new burner for the fridge.£100 plus fitting.
I asked was this not covered under the warranty (2 years on a new Rapido)
He replied no because I have had a refillble gas system fitted. He stated LPG / Autogas from filling stations etc. is a dirty gas and the fridge manufacturers will not honour the warranty under these cicumstances. He also stated my Truma boiler would not be covered under warranty.
Has anyone else come accross this problem?

Blue skies

John
 
calor is the biggest provider of lpg in the uk
as alan keeps saying they fill the lpg tanks with industrial grade propane ...exactly the same as they put in their propane bottles and fill domestic tanks ...just watch the tanker go from one to the other !

however I am aware that the big problem with the refillable bottles is that people top them up rather than empty them then refill ; this way the so called heavy ends accumulates in the bottle rather than getting burnt off with every bottle full , the gas therefore becomes more and more polluted ; makes gassing more problematic in cold weather as well ;the problem does not arrive when using as road fuel as it goes to the engine as a liquid , admittedly the vapouriser can get gunged up as I know to my cost having run on lpg for 25 years !

how would the fridge manufacturer know what gas you are using anyhow ? if you turned up with an ordinary gas bottle what would the dealer have said then ?
 
lpg is 100% industrial propane in at least spain , france and germany ....used to be mixed in belgium but I am told is now propane as well

I suspect it is the same everywhere now , more profitable that way

of course industrial grade propane has other gases in it , about 5% I understand , all sorts of HC junk
 
oldpolicehouse said:
Hello
Just took my Rapido back to the dealers for its first Habitation check (1 year old)
When I picked it up the dealer said I need a new burner for the fridge.£100 plus fitting.
I asked was this not covered under the warranty (2 years on a new Rapido)
He replied no because I have had a refillable gas system fitted. He stated LPG / Autogas from filling stations etc. is a dirty gas and the fridge manufacturers will not honour the warranty under these cicumstances. He also stated my Truma boiler would not be covered under warranty.
Has anyone else come accross this problem?

Blue skies

John
Click to expand...

Hi John,

I cannot be sure but this sounds like one of those if we had installed it you would have been covered stories, which may or may not be true. However all goods have to be fit for purpose. Refillable cylinders have been an acceptable practise in this country for years so any burner should cope with them unless it is clearly stated in the instructions. Most burners last for decades not months. You might like to let Rapido know that you will be discussing it with your local Trading Standards and see what they both say. Might at least get you a discount. Some reputable companies like to know ASAP if there is a problem with their product so they can sort it before it becomes a major PR problem.

Good Luck with it

Richard
 
lebesset said:
lpg is 100% industrial propane in at least spain , france and germany ....used to be mixed in belgium but I am told is now propane as well

I suspect it is the same everywhere now , more profitable that way

of course industrial grade propane has other gases in it , about 5% I understand , all sorts of HC junk
Click to expand...

We had this problem of the fridge burner sooting up as did the Truma S3000. We had been filling regularly at a local TEXACO station that was supplied by FloGas.

The fridge burner was cleaned but the fire had to have a complete new burner installed.

I changed only to Calor/Shell/Conoco in the UK and have had no more bother.

I have used Autogas in France and Spain and Butane for 5 months out of bottles in Spain all without problems.

FloGas didn't reply to my letter. Calor confirmed their Autogas is exactly the same as the red bottles they supply.
 
wikipedia is just what some individual has decide to publish , it is as likely to be false as true

you believe anything you read at your peril
 
Back to the OP's problem for a minute. I'm curious whether you noticed a problem with the burner before - or did the habitation checker decide it was faulty?? Exactly what was the fault??

Regardless, I would be ringing the MH manufacturer next and then the cooker manufacturer.

My MH has all appliances rated for both butane and propane and the correct regulator as well and have had no problems with any appliance in 12 months of full-time use - and that is with Autogas purchased all over from Spain to Norway, plus butane in bottles all over morocco.

If the gas you are using is "dirty", your pots and pans would be black underneath.
 
i,m sure both of you try to help everybody. lets not fall out . i try as well and i,m sure i get backs up occasionally but stay friends thats why we are here. i think original person got ripped off and was told the wrong things. have fun i try to cheers alan.
 
Nearly all gas suppliers will have a website with the Material Safety Data Sheet(MSDS) for their products, the MSDS will list all the components and their approximate %. Its easy enough to get that info from any of the major gas suppliers and/or manufacturers - LPG is just another product as part of crude oil distillation.

I'm almost positive that Autogas will vary slightly according to the market it is in sold into - variations in local temperatures, altitude, etc. will make some blending of the LPG necessary to make it useable - lower freezing points in cold climates. Pretty much like diesel has Summer and Winter blends, so too would LPG sold in a climate where (say) temps were below freezing most days versus days of 25C plus where gas freezing up a supply pipe would not be an issue.

Personally I'd take the warranty issue with a pinch of salt and tell them to get it fixed.
 
Country Propane Butane
Austria 50 50
Belgium 50 50
Denmark 50 50
France 35 65
Greece 20 80
Ireland 100 _
Italy 25 75
Netherlands 50 50
Spain 30 70
Sweden 95 5
United Kingdom 100 _
Germany 90 10
 
We do not know for certain if there is anything wrong with the burner:wacko:

Maybe on a visible inspection the flame looked a bit yellow and the test guy dreamt up a half plausible excuse to extract some money:D What he should have done is clean the dead spiders and debris away from the burner and cleaned the baffle in the burner tube.

My Dometic fridge is 10 years old and has exclusively been run on Autogas (underfloor tank) without any problems .............so far:angel:

John
 
I had a look at the AGIP msds for autogas in Germany and they (the refiner) state anything between 10/90 to 90/10 with upto 20% Ethane and/or 10% Butene and a small amount of Butadienne when required.
 
that list for lpg has been around for more years than I can remember ..it was certainly around when I started on lpg powered vehicles 30 years ago

whether or not it was ever correct I cannot say , but it is certainly not correct now

I presume it is a matter of profitability
one tanker fills all on a trip , propane is used because it will work in all temperatures , industrial grade because there is no need to further refine when it is to be burnt ; industrial grade propane DOES of course contain other gases as pollutants , butane , toluene , napthane et al

I don't know if the EU will start insisting on correct labelling in the future , but here in france the latest bottles are no longer labelled as butane and propane , but as industrial grade butane and propane which is , of course , what they actually contain ; what is actually sold varies all the time i like petrol , as long as it meets the minimum standard it can be sold ..no doubt the refiner has to trick it up sometimes to reach that [ read elsewhere where we are ripped off in europe on our petrol grades due to the permitted test methods ]

why not ask the tanker drivers who deliver the stuff , as I did , or use alan's method of watching the tanker go from lpg tank to propane tank filling from the same load

I have only listed countries where I have checked personally , I asked my brother who live in belgium who told me that they are now on propane , but only stated that as ..I have been told ..in case he is mistaken , I haven't asked for myself
 
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Car engine LPG systems are either direct injection of liquid, or the liquid is evaporated using engine coolant before going to the engine, so theoretically even butane can be used down to very low temperatures once the engine is running. France in the Alps is somewhat cooler than a lot of the UK and Ireland yet the proportions are vastly different.
 
hi, as an agency driver i know the drivers we work together on other jobs. they keep asking me why i dont drive the tankers .i have adr so could . but as its a fair distance to start the job cant be bothered . because of my interest in the gasses etc we chat about their next tip etc .one of the summer drivers is a regular visitor to oz so we pass the time talking trips etc . its not a new idea like i keep saying i started using lpg in cars mid 70,s and have had forklift filling facilities for years .also seen and worked with sewage gasses in engines. most sewage plants have big motors driving gennies to link into the grid .its all amazing.
 
As somebody else said the list has been around for a long time, I actually copied it from one of my previous posts concerning LPG. I can't remember the source I originally got it from but a quick search on google for
LPG Composition (% by volume) as Automotive Fuel in Europe
throws up loads of sites.
 
To get back to the original post again. The fridge and boiler manufacturers know that most cylinders contain all sorts of rubbish. They are sold in every country in Europe so to be fit for purpose their products will have to cope with it. Therefore the repair should be done under guarantee.

Richard
 
Perhaps the OP can give us an update on his situation.
 
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