Traffic Regulation Orders

[AndyC]

[Reposted from the Derbyshire section]
It's very common to have TROs (Traffic Regulation Orders) which include a ban on camping, sleeping, cooking, eating, etc... in car parks.

The matter of enforcement is a different matter, I have recently be trying, without success so far, to find out whether regulations which are not displayed on car park signs are actually enforceable.

The ban on sleeping is in fact a very difficult one to enforce, I believe the onus would be on the local authority to prove that you were actually asleep at the time.

AndyC

 

[Deleted member 3270]

Very good point AndyC

 

[caspar]

As I said in the original thread, this is a really interesting point, and unlike the penultimate post on the Derbyshire thread, I don't think it is about having to hide away at all, quite the opposite. If you're entitled to park there, you're entitled to be in your vehicle.

Another thing which occurs to me which confuses things further is that at spots such as this a lot of people have a kip in their cars enjoying the view and relaxing. Does this mean that they can be done for sleeping in their vehicles?

It needs sorting out by someone! Let us know what happens Andy!

 

[Deleted member 5816]

As I said in the original thread, this is a really interesting point, and unlike the penultimate post on the Derbyshire thread, I don't think it is about having to hide away at all, quite the opposite. If you're entitled to park there, you're entitled to be in your vehicle.

Another thing which occurs to me which confuses things further is that at spots such as this a lot of people have a kip in their cars enjoying the view and relaxing. Does this mean that they can be done for sleeping in their vehicles?

It needs sorting out by someone! Let us know what happens Andy!

I believe the TRO is for " No Overnight Camping " which I assume anyone staying overnight in a motor caravan is doing just that anyone --- in a car sleeping may well be allowed

Alf

 

[Deleted member 967]

I believe the TRO is for " No Overnight Camping " which I assume anyone staying overnight in a motor caravan is doing just that anyone --- in a car sleeping may well be allowed

Alf

Camping would involve putting something outside of the vehicle such as water contains, step, etc.

If the vehicle is parked in the same way as the other vehicles in the car park. It is of no consequence if the vehicle is occupied or not. If you cannot stay in your vehicle then someone sitting in a car would also be in breach of the order.

If the order was no cooking, then that does not prevent someone being in the vehicle.

If the ban was no eating then every vehicle that visited the area would need to comply. No pies, no ice cream, no sweets, no takeaways, consumed inside of the vehicle.

Who is going to enforce these bans?

John

 

[Deleted member 5816]

No Overnight Camping

Camping would involve putting something outside of the vehicle such as water contains, step, etc.

If the vehicle is parked in the same way as the other vehicles in the car park. It is of no consequence if the vehicle is occupied or not. If you cannot stay in your vehicle then someone sitting in a car would also be in breach of the order.

If the order was no cooking, then that does not prevent someone being in the vehicle.

If the ban was no eating then every vehicle that visited the area would need to comply. No pies, no ice cream, no sweets, no takeaways, consumed inside of the vehicle.

John why would you need to put something outside every time you stop to have a brew are you one off those that puts things outside ,plastic flowers and fruit in the window.

I think not, but you are camping are you not in the spirit of the TRO anyone in a Tent,Caravan,Motor Home that parks overnight in a car park that says No Overnight Camping you can expect clamping or fine it is these people that make it worse for the rest of us

Camping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

try this link

Alf

 

[vwalan]

there is an eu ruling about cars being category m and m,homes being cat m1. it makes m,homes cars with special bodies .its against eu law to discriminate between the two. its on its way through euro parliememt at the moment. spain as already had a telling off. i know letters have gone off regarding this also height barriers they cause discrimination. to make it lagal caparks should tell you and quote the tro that they are using to stop you sleeping in cars .eating etc is just the same. bit like traffis signs should have a referance on the rear saying tro xxx many dont so they can be ilegal themselves. all traffis signs have to be acording to the traffic signs directives. i have succesfully fought and won a case where the authorities break this directive.and lost theircase . it also lea to an even bigger mistake on their behalf and at the moment as cost dorset authorities one and a half million quid. we must abide so must they. cheers alan.

 

[caspar]

there is an eu ruling about cars being category m and m,homes being cat m1. it makes m,homes cars with special bodies .its against eu law to discriminate between the two. its on its way through euro parliememt at the moment. spain as already had a telling off. i know letters have gone off regarding this also height barriers they cause discrimination. to make it lagal caparks should tell you and quote the tro that they are using to stop you sleeping in cars .eating etc is just the same. bit like traffis signs should have a referance on the rear saying tro xxx many dont so they can be ilegal themselves. all traffis signs have to be acording to the traffic signs directives. i have succesfully fought and won a case where the authorities break this directive.and lost theircase . it also lea to an even bigger mistake on their behalf and at the moment as cost dorset authorities one and a half million quid. we must abide so must they. cheers alan.

Wow! This could have opened an enormous can of worms. Do you have any link to the
law going through the European Parliament? It would be very interesting to read it and could provide very persuasive evidence to councils for them to change their policies if what you say is correct.

 

[vwalan]

its on its way but its better to not tell the councils .then we can smack each one in turn. thats what is happening at the moment with all the other signs etc that are wrong. if you think you have been badly done to, please feel free to let me know .i am part of a uk wide group that fight these things . we have barrasters etc that fight for costs so you dont pay .but you have to be right . its well looked into. i went all the way to crown court with no representation . but had to bring in a barrester to speak in the crown court as i was not allowed to. its their stupid rules again. but dont worry it all takes time . took years for me to win my case some have taken longer. we are monitering yellow lines all signs .etc there are loads not correct but it works far better to not tell them their mistakes but smack them like naughty children through the courts .starcross down here was also won by one pof the group. also lots of other silly things like flat topped 3 in mph signs must be rounded top to the 3. all signs have to be a recognised size and design . when i know more i shall post it.
cheers alan. google alan dawe speeding chideock. that wil pass a few hours for you. ha ha.

 

[Deleted member 967]

Camping would involve putting something outside of the vehicle such as water contains, step, etc.

If the vehicle is parked in the same way as the other vehicles in the car park. It is of no consequence if the vehicle is occupied or not. If you cannot stay in your vehicle then someone sitting in a car would also be in breach of the order.

If the order was no cooking, then that does not prevent someone being in the vehicle.

If the ban was no eating then every vehicle that visited the area would need to comply. No pies, no ice cream, no sweets, no takeaways, consumed inside of the vehicle.

John why would you need to put something outside every time you stop to have a brew are you one off those that puts things outside ,plastic flowers and fruit in the window.

I think not, but you are camping are you not in the spirit of the TRO anyone in a Tent,Caravan,Motor Home that parks overnight in a car park that says No Overnight Camping you can expect clamping or fine it is these people that make it worse for the rest of us

Camping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

try this link

Alf

Hi Alf

Wili is just someones opinion. It is made up by individuals posting to the site. What is on there is not necessarily correct.

If a vehicle stops in a location it is parked. No it is not necessary to put anything outside to use a motorhome. Therefore it is not camping to park and use the interior of the vehicle for any purpose. If you do put anything outside of the vehicle then it could be construed that you are camping. The French use this as a definition for using Aires.

If anything it is "stationing a vehicle for human habitation" to quote the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. The order if it states "camping" is therefore misleading and open question as to the actual use at the time.

John

 

[vwalan]

there is some thing you can look at .its a commision directive 2001/116/ec of 20 december 2001.in paragraph5.1 of section a of annex 11 refers to m,homes as any special category m vehicles . it relates to the m,home being a car. its a vital part of the argument going on in the eu parliement . its not a new law its just making the old ones work .and stopping authority abusing their power.
chers alan.