GARY ENGLISH
Guest
Do we have any members who tow a small car on a, A frame, how to you get on.
Nosha
Guest
'A' frames
As an ex-member of the American Motorhome club there was ALWAYS plenty of correspondence regarding the above, as there was in the early stages some legal doubts... now the AA etc use them and tow poles we all know they're ok - except Spain who stopped a few members.
The main concerns now are that you can't tow automatics, very few kits applied the tow cars brakes, especially once the servo was exhausted so this limits your towing size/capacity as it becomes an un-braked trailer and some cars still clocked up the mileage when being towed! You will also need to tow with the key in the ignition or the steering lock dis-connected, and like ***** said they're a bugger to reverse!
But Good luck and let us know how you get on.
As an ex-member of the American Motorhome club there was ALWAYS plenty of correspondence regarding the above, as there was in the early stages some legal doubts... now the AA etc use them and tow poles we all know they're ok - except Spain who stopped a few members.
The main concerns now are that you can't tow automatics, very few kits applied the tow cars brakes, especially once the servo was exhausted so this limits your towing size/capacity as it becomes an un-braked trailer and some cars still clocked up the mileage when being towed! You will also need to tow with the key in the ignition or the steering lock dis-connected, and like ***** said they're a bugger to reverse!
But Good luck and let us know how you get on.
voxol51
Guest
A frame towing is a no no already in Portugal Spain and I think Germany.
They are as stated already legal only for recovery work.
The grey area in this country is whether they are a trailer?
If so, the brakes must work on the towed vehicle when the towing vehicle has brakes applied. Things can be purchased for that, but the next rule says trailers must be able to be reversed under full control by the towing vehicle.
Reversing a car on an A frame 'under full control' round a corner is virtually impossible.
To stay safe and legal, the big organisations say put the car on a trailer.
Of course, this then brings in problems of weight...........
Voxy.
They are as stated already legal only for recovery work.
The grey area in this country is whether they are a trailer?
If so, the brakes must work on the towed vehicle when the towing vehicle has brakes applied. Things can be purchased for that, but the next rule says trailers must be able to be reversed under full control by the towing vehicle.
Reversing a car on an A frame 'under full control' round a corner is virtually impossible.
To stay safe and legal, the big organisations say put the car on a trailer.
Of course, this then brings in problems of weight...........
Voxy.
pappajohn
Guest
A frames
hi,
i used to A frame my suzuki jeep behind a landy disco with no probs except reversing. the natural reaction is for the front wheels to caster the wrong way (reverse left, the wheels turn right cos you're pushing the front to the right) but with the grunt of a landy and about 3/4 ton of jeep this was never a real problem but the front tyres didn't like it. the towed car MUST be road legal. as for brakes, i believe most braked A frames work on the car hand brake just like caravan and trailer brakes. definately in france a towed car must be fully suspended ie: on a trailer.
hi,
i used to A frame my suzuki jeep behind a landy disco with no probs except reversing. the natural reaction is for the front wheels to caster the wrong way (reverse left, the wheels turn right cos you're pushing the front to the right) but with the grunt of a landy and about 3/4 ton of jeep this was never a real problem but the front tyres didn't like it. the towed car MUST be road legal. as for brakes, i believe most braked A frames work on the car hand brake just like caravan and trailer brakes. definately in france a towed car must be fully suspended ie: on a trailer.
GARY ENGLISH
Guest
A frames
Just wondered how people got on with them. At first thought about towing wifes mini.Then decided against as the idea of having motorhome ,was to be able to move around dont like to be in one place to long .
Just wondered how people got on with them. At first thought about towing wifes mini.Then decided against as the idea of having motorhome ,was to be able to move around dont like to be in one place to long .
GARY ENGLISH
Guest
*****
Sorry it was late just finished work.I have motorhome and mini,decided against towing mini as it restricts you from roaming around so much. Thanks for pointing that out.You cant make mistakes on here with out some one picking you out.
Sorry it was late just finished work.I have motorhome and mini,decided against towing mini as it restricts you from roaming around so much. Thanks for pointing that out.You cant make mistakes on here with out some one picking you out.
sagart
Guest
To quote "It also states that a vehicle legal in the home state & temporary imported into another state is not necessarily legal as was once thought"
The lunacy of this was clear to me when my daughter, her husband and I each owned 1978 Chevrolet Camaros.
The cars were identical in all aspects except that mine had been assembled finally in Antwerp and carried a German Tuv plating on the firwall.
They were warned, formally, several times by the police that their cars did not comply with UK. Construction & Use regulations.
When their solicitors asked the police why they were not prosecuting me at the same time, the answer was that mine was plated as acceptable under EU rules.
At least the stupidty of their reasoning meant they did not proceed with the cases - in a way a pity as the lawyers could have had a field day with them.
The lunacy of this was clear to me when my daughter, her husband and I each owned 1978 Chevrolet Camaros.
The cars were identical in all aspects except that mine had been assembled finally in Antwerp and carried a German Tuv plating on the firwall.
They were warned, formally, several times by the police that their cars did not comply with UK. Construction & Use regulations.
When their solicitors asked the police why they were not prosecuting me at the same time, the answer was that mine was plated as acceptable under EU rules.
At least the stupidty of their reasoning meant they did not proceed with the cases - in a way a pity as the lawyers could have had a field day with them.
gordon
Guest
hi gary i have uaed an a frame for 3 years now i tow a nissan terrano 4x4 be hind my 7.5t m/h and never had any problems. its ideal as the m/h is abit big to pop to the shop in.well happy with it
gordon
gordon
happybonzo
Guest
***** said:Talking of trailers.
I delivered our prototype 52 ft rear steer trailer to the NEC Truck show today.
The 3 axles are on 1 boggie and it turns like a 5th wheel (all 3 axles turn together), then the rear axle steers independently.
The turning circle is similar or less than a normal length trailer, but U have to be careful of the boggie kicking out on whichever is ur blind side at the time.
To reverse, u have to stop in a straight line & press a button to lock all the axles in a straight line, otherwise it would go back wards like a small A frame & have a mind of it,s own.
Good fun as it makes u think a little!
==============
"Good fun as it makes you think a little - That's got to be the undertsatement of the week - -LOL
Having just been watching some Wibbley-Wobley tuggers trying to reverse I'd love to see them try it
Well done Graham - that's brightened my morning!
GeorgeTelford
Guest
A frame trailers are ilegal except for recovery purposes, this as always been the case in the UK and europe. an A framed car cannot be reversed under control, secondly if brakes are fitted they must be operational and clearly the cars brakes are not working, some people claim that an A framed car under 750kg doesnt need to be braked unfortunately this only applies if no brakes are fitted, under construction and use regs, brakes if fitted must be operational, electrical "brake buddies" do not count as they are not legal for european use, all brakes must be mechanical or fluid driven, electrical braking is not acceptable.
Now many people are using them and nobody seems to be applying the law, but the fact that there are no prosecutions does not mean that they are legal.
In a nutshell they are ilegal, but at the moment nobody is getting done, when they do start prosecuting you will not have a leg to stand on.
Regards
George
Now many people are using them and nobody seems to be applying the law, but the fact that there are no prosecutions does not mean that they are legal.
In a nutshell they are ilegal, but at the moment nobody is getting done, when they do start prosecuting you will not have a leg to stand on.
Regards
George
GeorgeTelford
Guest
The NTTA Nat. towing trailer ass. did at one point claim that A frame towing was legal, I wrote and pointed out the legislation UK and european that said they were wrong, they did not have the decency to reply but they did however amend their FAQ page to show that its ilegal.
If you read it http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm you will notice that they have done an poor job of amending it, the first bit still seems to imply that A frame towing is legal however read on and they quote the EEC directive and state that its ilegal except for recovery.
If you read it http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm you will notice that they have done an poor job of amending it, the first bit still seems to imply that A frame towing is legal however read on and they quote the EEC directive and state that its ilegal except for recovery.
happybonzo
Guest
There was one rather grim tale regarding A frames recently
A Matey bought a Smart: All looked lovely, never raced or rallied, etc
Had it less than a year and the suspension gave out. He took it to Mercedes only to be told that the car had done at least 80k and that all the running gear was "trucked" (that's a technical engineering term)
Turns out the little thing had been on an A frame and towed behind a large M/home all over the place.
Smarts apparently give up at 60k miles plus so that may be worth bearing in mind...
btw - GT is right in what he says about the legality of A frames. We have had a lot of discussion elsewhere on this subject. The general consensus is that the Rozzers are just waiting for a chance to bring a test case on the things
edit for spelign
A Matey bought a Smart: All looked lovely, never raced or rallied, etc
Had it less than a year and the suspension gave out. He took it to Mercedes only to be told that the car had done at least 80k and that all the running gear was "trucked" (that's a technical engineering term)
Turns out the little thing had been on an A frame and towed behind a large M/home all over the place.
Smarts apparently give up at 60k miles plus so that may be worth bearing in mind...
btw - GT is right in what he says about the legality of A frames. We have had a lot of discussion elsewhere on this subject. The general consensus is that the Rozzers are just waiting for a chance to bring a test case on the things
edit for spelign