Summat's up - - but what? Transit front wheel positions

[gasgas]

When braking hard in Hardly (because hardly anything works) my 1999 Transit AutoSleeper I noticed a rubbing noise from the nsf wheel area. I took it to my friendly neighbourhood garage for the MOT and asked them to look at this. They levered and poked at the suspension and said its fine, they can't see anything wrong. It passed the MOT.
Today I thought I would investigate. Have you noticed when looking at a car braking hard that to a small extent the front wheel moves rearwards under the braking force? I looked at Hardly's nsf wheel arch and noticed that the tyre was quite close to the wheel arch, to the extent that it had rubbed through the plastic mud shield and into the metalwork. It had new tyres when I bought it so my tyre was not worn there.
So of course I thought the rubber mounts of the lower wishbone / track control arm must be perished - but if so why did it pass the MOT and the garage couldn't see anything wrong when they looked for the problem?
I removed the wheel, got a dirty great big pole and tried levering the suspension parts back and forth. No movement at all, rock solid, allowing for the rubber mounts.
Then I stood up, puzzled and wondered if the driver's side wheel was the same, but if it was, why didn't it rub? I noticed that the door / front wing line is vertical and dropping a plumb line down the join would enable me to compare the passenger side with the driver side so I got a big stick and held it against the vertical door-to-wing joint. On the passenger side with the rubbing tyre the line cut through some of the wheel nuts. On the driver's side, all the wheel nuts were forward of the big stick. So the passenger side wheel is probably one inch behind the driver side wheel. The gap between tyre and wheel arch on the driver's side is three fingers wide. The gap on the passenger side is less than two fingers wide.
I got underneath again expecting to see something bent. There is nothing bent. All the surface rust is what you would expect from a 1999 Transit with 68,000 miles. Nothing is bent, nothing has been renewed. There are no mounting points that have variable positions so that this suspension could be mounted further back than the driver side.
Then I wondered if the tyre sizes were different. They aren't, they are equally new, same make, equally sized tyres.
I'm not going to tell the garage, they might fail the MOT, and it drives perfectly well. And I'm taking it to the top of Norway this summer . . . . . (maybe I'll leave it there! titter titter
Puzzled, of Lutterworth.
All answers on a postcard will be wrong.

 

[trevskoda]

I worked on fords in a garage and have a kitcar with ford base, never seen a good one yet in 40 odd years, any ford engines in my jago never lasted past 40th miles.
Something is not correct on your van, has it been hit at some time, tape messure back to front from wheel centres both sides to see if the same distance.

 

[Canalsman]

In your pictures with the length of wood the alignment is not the same with respect to the leading edge of the doors.

If it was it would probably match your verbal description.

Very odd. Has the van been in an accident?

 

[Tezza33]

Is there a good auto bodyshop near you, they can put it on a jig and check the chassis but it won't be cheap.

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[Robmac]

I would suspect that if it had been in an accident before you had it this would have shown before now.

Only a suggestion but could be a result of the state of UK roads?

 

[RichardHelen262]

That looks like it has had previous accident damage.
Look at the chassis towards the bulk head and under the bulkhead for any kinks,
Either that or it could have had a new chassis leg welded in as they were prone to rot,
And it could be a case of whoever welded it in wasn’t too good with a tape measure

 

[andyjanet]

I would say bent lower arm and agree with rob

 

[Scotia]

Something is not correct on your van, has it been hit at some time, tape messure back to front from wheel centres both sides to see if the same distance.

As ee said!

 

[TerryD]

You say " had rubbed through the plastic mud shield and into the metalwork."

I know you also say " It had new tyres when I bought it so my tyre was not worn there"
But you have been driving it it yes ?

If it was rubbing that much to cause damage to the metal it would also cause damage to the tyre, this is most likely why it had new tyres on when you purchased it, it sounds like it may of had a problem before you purchased it and was hitting the wheel arch more than what it is now.
It may be it had been in a front end bump and not been realigned correct, Like Tezza33 says a body shop would be your best option to get this checked.

If you have a steep hill near you park the van facing down so the weight is dropping on the front and see if it is pushing the wheel back to the arch, it might give you an idea of if it is happening now, you could also try taking it on a car park and some one film you braking harsh to see if you can get it on video/ or to rule out that it is not touching the wheel arch.

 

[Boris7]

I would say bent lower arm and agree with rob

And possibly a bent top strut mounting

 

[yeoblade]

Definitely measure wheel base both sides, to see if it's chassis or bodywork

 

[Pudsey Bear]

When braking hard in Hardly (because hardly anything works) my 1999 Transit AutoSleeper I noticed a rubbing noise from the nsf wheel area. I took it to my friendly neighbourhood garage for the MOT and asked them to look at this. They levered and poked at the suspension and said its fine, they can't see anything wrong. It passed the MOT.
Today I thought I would investigate. Have you noticed when looking at a car braking hard that to a small extent the front wheel moves rearwards under the braking force? I looked at Hardly's nsf wheel arch and noticed that the tyre was quite close to the wheel arch, to the extent that it had rubbed through the plastic mud shield and into the metalwork. It had new tyres when I bought it so my tyre was not worn there.
So of course I thought the rubber mounts of the lower wishbone / track control arm must be perished - but if so why did it pass the MOT and the garage couldn't see anything wrong when they looked for the problem?
I removed the wheel, got a dirty great big pole and tried levering the suspension parts back and forth. No movement at all, rock solid, allowing for the rubber mounts.
Then I stood up, puzzled and wondered if the driver's side wheel was the same, but if it was, why didn't it rub? I noticed that the door / front wing line is vertical and dropping a plumb line down the join would enable me to compare the passenger side with the driver side so I got a big stick and held it against the vertical door-to-wing joint. On the passenger side with the rubbing tyre the line cut through some of the wheel nuts. On the driver's side, all the wheel nuts were forward of the big stick. So the passenger side wheel is probably one inch behind the driver side wheel. The gap between tyre and wheel arch on the driver's side is three fingers wide. The gap on the passenger side is less than two fingers wide.
I got underneath again expecting to see something bent. There is nothing bent. All the surface rust is what you would expect from a 1999 Transit with 68,000 miles. Nothing is bent, nothing has been renewed. There are no mounting points that have variable positions so that this suspension could be mounted further back than the driver side.
Then I wondered if the tyre sizes were different. They aren't, they are equally new, same make, equally sized tyres.
I'm not going to tell the garage, they might fail the MOT, and it drives perfectly well. And I'm taking it to the top of Norway this summer . . . . . (maybe I'll leave it there! titter titter
Puzzled, of Lutterworth.
All answers on a postcard will be wrong.
View attachment 141200View attachment 141201View attachment 141202View attachment 141203

It looks to me like in the top pic the wood is on the door side of the gap and the next it is on the wing side of the gap so expect a difference the width of the wood

 

[Robmac]

It looks to me like in the top pic the wood is on the door side of the gap and the next it is on the wing side of the gap so expect a difference the width of the wood

Would that matter Kev if you follow the left edge of the wood on one pic and the right on the other?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Perhaps, it was just a thought.

 

[gasgas]

I don't think it matters, I could have used a piece of string and a weight.
Anyway in consideration of us going to Norway for three months in it later this year and it having just clocked 70,000 miles I have taken it to a garage for a service. I could easily do it myself but when I looked on the bank's breakdown cover, which includes Europe and Scandinavia, and motorhomes under something ridiculous like 10 metres, I noticed that one requirement is a history of up to date servicing. So I have taken it back to the garage where I previously told them to investigate 'rubbing noise from the front nearside wheel under heavy braking'. They did investigate and couldn't find anything, and it passed the MOT. I know in the MOT they use levers to test for worn rubber bushes. As I said, I have also levered evrything that might move to find any worn rubber bushes and I couldn't see any play. Anyway I have just dropped it off there (and cycled a few miles home, gasp) and I didn't tell them so I wait with interest to see if they notice it this time round. If they don't I will tell them when I pick it up.
But I remain convinced there is no accident damage and no bent lower wishbone, all the suspension is as rusty as you would expect. There are no bent bits and no 'this has obviously been changed in the last five years' bit. Both sides are the same rustiness. It drives and brakes in a perfect straight line, and has done so for about a year now, including all round Bavaria last summer.
If they don't see it, I'll point it out when I collect it.
The last few days I have been underneath removing a wet rotten timber strip all along under the side skirt. Luckily the floor is fine, just this strip joining the wall to the floor was damp - or more accurately I should say the woodworms decided it is so wet they will go and seek asylum in a different camper, and left.

 

[gasgas]

AHA! The garage has just phoned and told me they have found the reason for the harsh braking.
I didn't tell them to look for it but they remembered that I had previously asked and they couldn't find it, and this time they had another look. It is bushes, they have hardened. So they are ordering the parts from Ford and it will be done in a couple of days. Luckily they can still get parts . . . . . .
Actually if they have to remove the wishbone I will get them to change the lower ball joint at the same time.