Speed part 2

[Toffeecat]

Hi all. As some may be aware I got 3 points a while back when I was relying on my sat nav which was wrong. Well coming home from Holland I was plodding along in the 120 . I went past a mobile camera. No worries I was in a 60 doing 53. I've just checked and it appears I may have Ben speeding. Is it true the speed limit for my 120 is 50 or is it 60.

 

[Robmac]

Was this back in the UK?

This should help if so;

Speed limits - GOV.UK

 

[sparrks]

Hi all. As some may be aware I got 3 points a while back when I was relying on my sat nav which was wrong. Well coming home from Holland I was plodding along in the 120 . I went past a mobile camera. No worries I was in a 60 doing 53. I've just checked and it appears I may have Ben speeding. Is it true the speed limit for my 120 is 50 or is it 60.

If it's a pucker 'registered' motorhome (which it appears to be) then the speed limit will be the same as a car. If a van then you would still get away with it as afar as I'm aware the mobile cameras are 10% plus 2mph so you would be under and secondly if you were looking at your speedometer rather than the sat-nav speed then you would be under as well.
The only people I know who have got a ticket for driving a van over 50mph on an ordinary A road are those that are breaking the 60mph limit even by 1 mph, I'm sure other peoples experiences will be different - I think you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Toffeecat]

Thanks all. It's a pucker motorhome but only a 2 berth and it's mass in running order is 2548 and mtplm 3000 so well under 3.o5 tons. I was only doing 53 on the Speedo I don't speed and even have warnings on my sat nav and phone.

 

[mark61]

Thanks all. It's a pucker motorhome but only a 2 berth and it's mass in running order is 2548 and mtplm 3000 so well under 3.o5 tons. I was only doing 53 on the Speedo I don't speed and even have warnings on my sat nav and phone.

Probably only doing about 48 ish. Throttles on the right.

 

[vindiboy]

Was this back in the UK?

This should help if so;

Speed limits - GOV.UK

Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)

This gov site you posted refers tho Motorhomes as max UNLADEN WEIGHT , I thought it [speed limits ] were based on gross max weight ie 3.5 tonnes for my van, so I wonder what my vans max unladen weight is ?:drive:

 

[Robmac]

Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)

This gov site you posted refers tho Motorhomes as max UNLADEN WEIGHT , I thought it [speed limits ] were based on gross max weight ie 3.5 tonnes for my van, so I wonder what my vans max unladen weight is ?:drive:

I think the max unladen weight should be on your registration doc?

 

[mark61]

Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)

This gov site you posted refers tho Motorhomes as max UNLADEN WEIGHT , I thought it [speed limits ] were based on gross max weight ie 3.5 tonnes for my van, so I wonder what my vans max unladen weight is ?:drive:

Long discussion about that a while ago. Suppose it boils down to how unladen is interpreted.

If you have a 3500KG GVW, very unlikely your unladen weight is over 3.05 T.

 

[Robmac]

Long discussion about that a while ago. Suppose it boils down to how unladen is interpreted.

If you have a 3500KG GVW, very unlikely your unladen weight is over 3.05 T.

Yes, more likely just over 2.o T.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Unladen weight is the weight that you can get it down to by taking EVERYTHING that can be removed out of it EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING, seats , fuel ,,food , bedding, water passenger seats ( they weigh a hell of a lot) spare tyre get it below 3000kgs get a weighbridge ticket as proof and send it to the authorities as proof it is lower that the limit and it will be quashed, but do it BEFORE you pay as you will not get it back or the points off the licence. All the equipment is the load and don not forget to get out of the van when they do it especially if you weigh more than one stone.

 

[Robmac]

Unladen weight is the weight that you can get it down to by taking EVERYTHING that can be removed out of it EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING, seats , fuel ,,food , bedding, water passenger seats ( they weigh a hell of a lot) spare tyre get it below 3000kgs get a weighbridge ticket as proof and send it to the authorities as proof it is lower that the limit and it will be quashed, but do it BEFORE you pay as you will not get it back or the points off the licence. All the equipment is the load and don not forget to get out of the van when they do it especially if you weigh more than one stone.

I'm not sure that's exactly how it works.

I thought the unladen weight is set on the vehicle as it left the factory without fuel and oil or driver, you shouldn't need to have the vehicle weighed, the unladen weight should already be set? :rolleyes2:

 

[colinm]

I'm not sure that's exactly how it works.

I thought the unladen weight is set on the vehicle as it left the factory without fuel and oil or driver, you shouldn't need to have the vehicle weighed, the unladen weight should already be set? :rolleyes2:

It is very unlikely you will get a motorhome with a unladen weight measured as it comes out the factory.
The CoC for my Globecar has a figure for 'unladen weight' and I thought it was surprisingly high, on checking it seems it was the MIRO(and even then it seems high), my van now has a weight as presented for the MOT on the system, it isn't on V5, but when the MOT test starts it comes up on screen.

 

[Wooie1958]

Hi all. As some may be aware I got 3 points a while back when I was relying on my sat nav which was wrong. Well coming home from Holland I was plodding along in the 120 . I went past a mobile camera. No worries I was in a 60 doing 53. I've just checked and it appears I may have Ben speeding. Is it true the speed limit for my 120 is 50 or is it 60.

How did you know it was a 60 limit and what type of road was it ? I assume this was here in the UK and the numbers quoted are MPH ?

 

[GeoffL]

Unladen Weight is only used in the UK, so few motorhome makers publish it. They tend to quote MIRO, which is much heavier. How much is hard to determine, but that doubt is in your favour. Anything with a GVW under 4 tonnes is fine. Anything over 5 tonnes probably isn't. In between is maybe subject to doubt.

As HD wrote, manufacturers tend to quote MIRO, which includes fuel, water, essential habitation equipment, an allowance for the driver, etc. Unladen weight includes none of these and so will be significantly less. For example, the MIRO of my van is 3,070 kg and the MTPLM is 3,850 kg. From the MIRO, I can subtract at least 75 kg for the driver, 100 kg for water, 50 kg for fuel, 15 kg for gas cylinders. So my van's unladen weight can't be more than (3070-75-100-50-15) = 2,830 kg. So HD's "anything with GVW under 4 tonnes is fine" is spot on AFAICT.

 

[Robmac]

It is very unlikely you will get a motorhome with a unladen weight measured as it comes out the factory.
The CoC for my Globecar has a figure for 'unladen weight' and I thought it was surprisingly high, on checking it seems it was the MIRO(and even then it seems high), my van now has a weight as presented for the MOT on the system, it isn't on V5, but when the MOT test starts it comes up on screen.

This is what confuses me.

I thought that the base vehicle (say Fiat) would have a maximum unladen weight from the factory which excludes petrol, driver etc. This vehicle is sold to the coachbuilder (say Swift) who then add a load of gear which would diminish the payload but not affect the vehicles unladen weight?

 

[colinm]

This is what confuses me.

I thought that the base vehicle (say Fiat) would have a maximum unladen weight from the factory which excludes petrol, driver etc. This vehicle is sold to the coachbuilder (say Swift) who then add a load of gear which would diminish the payload but not affect the vehicles unladen weight?

Without at least some of the gear Swift adds it isn't a motorhome, so the Fiat ULW doesn't apply.

 

[GeoffL]

The legal definition of "unladen weight" is contained in the "Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations, 1986", which defines it thus:

the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.

Although bed boxes, cookers, fridges, toilets, etc. are not necessary for the vehicle to work on a road, they are ordinarily fitted (otherwise it wouldn't be a motorhome). In other words, the mass of all fixed habitation equipment is included in the unladen weight. However, loose equipment (such as mattresses, cushions, oven shelves, toilet cassette) are not.

That said, ISTR having this conversation before ...

 

[barge1914]

Unladen weight

Long discussion about that a while ago. Suppose it boils down to how unladen is interpreted.

If you have a 3500KG GVW, very unlikely your unladen weight is over 3.05 T.

You can’t make that assumption. Unladen weight of my 5.7m Bessacarr E412 is 2660 kg. However for a longer high spec van (of which many are sold to the unwitting) with double floors etc trying to convince buyers it’s a 3.5 T van it may be a different situation.

 

[GeoffL]

You can’t make that assumption. Unladen weight of my 5.7m Bessacarr E412 is 2660 kg. However for a longer high spec van (of which many are sold to the unwitting) with double floors etc trying to convince buyers it’s a 3.5 T van it may be a different situation.

The info on the V5C will be a dead giveaway. If over 3.5 tonne, the taxation class with be PHGV rather than PLG (or similar). Also, the revenue weight should be given and is synonymous with MTPLM. Unladen weight is less than MIRO (which some converters confusingly call 'unladen weight') by at least the following:

• 75 kg for the driver;
• A tankful of fuel (say) 80 litres x approx 0.9 = 72 kg;
• A tankful of water (say) 100 kg;
• 2 x gas cylinders and 1 x leisure battery (say) 45 kg;
• All removable upholstery (say) 30 kg.

That lot comes to 322. So, your van with a MIRO of 2660 kg, probably has an unladen weight of no more than 2338 kg.

If you consider a 3.5 tonne van and only allow 300 kg for fuel, water, removable equipment etc. The payload would need to be less than 150 kg (3500-3050-300) for the vehicle to be subject to the lower speed limits. YMMV, but I don't know a van with a payload that low.

 

[colinm]

The info on the V5C will be a dead giveaway. If over 3.5 tonne, the taxation class with be PHGV rather than PLG (or similar). Also, the revenue weight should be given and is synonymous with MTPLM. Unladen weight is less than MIRO (which some converters confusingly call 'unladen weight') by at least the following:

• 75 kg for the driver;
• A tankful of fuel (say) 80 litres x approx 0.9 = 72 kg;
• A tankful of water (say) 100 kg;
• 2 x gas cylinders and 1 x leisure battery (say) 45 kg;
• All removable upholstery (say) 30 kg.

That lot comes to 322. So, your van with a MIRO of 2660 kg, probably has an unladen weight of no more than 2338 kg.

If you consider a 3.5 tonne van and only allow 300 kg for fuel, water, removable equipment etc. The payload would need to be less than 150 kg (3500-3050-300) for the vehicle to be subject to the lower speed limits. YMMV, but I don't know a van with a payload that low.

Whilst I generally agree, I would point out that MIRO is becoming more diverse, some now only include 20L of water and at least one manufacturer appears to not include any water. Also most if not all only include 1 cylinder of gas.