Skylight for tapered roof

[GeoffL]

Someone I met at some recent music festivals has a mid-1990s Compass MH (not sure of the model) in which the dome and spiders of the front skylight has failed. It looks like a 400x400mm MPK but the MPK won't fit as the roof is tapered so that one end of the opening is almost 2" thicker than the other. His local dealer can't identify the skylight and doesn't know where to get a replacement. I'd be grateful for help to identify this skylight. TIA, Geoff

BTW, it seems crazy to me that a manufacturer would design a roof like that :wacko:

 

[Byronic]

Pics would really help a lot in trying to comprehend the problem.

Unless custom made I don't know of any standard rooflights
made to accommodate anything other than to fit a flat roof surface.
A bit of curvature as found on many panel vans can be
taken up by flexing the flange and building up the sealant.
Fiamma vents allow a little more flexing than does the
more rigid MPK plastic.
If the roof thickness varies at the vent aperture, then usually
the lining of the opening is scribed to fit the opening on the
four sides and fits neatly with the junction with the ceiling lining
board.
I've probably got the problem sussed arse about face I suspect !!

 

[GeoffL]

Pics would really help a lot in trying to comprehend the problem.

Unless custom made I don't know of any standard rooflights
made to accommodate anything other than to fit a flat roof surface.
A bit of curvature as found on many panel vans can be
taken up by flexing the flange and building up the sealant.
Fiamma vents allow a little more flexing than does the
more rigid MPK plastic.
If the roof thickness varies at the vent aperture, then usually
the lining of the opening is scribed to fit the opening on the
four sides and fits neatly with the junction with the ceiling lining
board.
I've probably got the problem sussed arse about face I suspect !!

Thanks. I've asked my friend for photos but not received them yet. At first, I thought that the inner panel had dropped at one end and that the skylight would pull it back up when fitted, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The taper is pronounced enough that the connecting screws miss one end of a standard MPK. I suspect the job could be bodged by fitting a tapered liner between the inner roof panel and the lower part of the skylight (to counter the taper of the roof) and using over-long screws to make up the increased separation between the inner and outer skylight assemblies. That said, I still can't understand why a manufacturer would design their roof this way.

 

[n brown]

Thanks. I've asked my friend for photos but not received them yet. At first, I thought that the inner panel had dropped at one end and that the skylight would pull it back up when fitted, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The taper is pronounced enough that the connecting screws miss one end of a standard MPK. I suspect the job could be bodged by fitting a tapered liner between the inner roof panel and the lower part of the skylight (to counter the taper of the roof) and using over-long screws to make up the increased separation between the inner and outer skylight assemblies. That said, I still can't understand why a manufacturer would design their roof this way.

that's exactly what i'd suggest . the problem is no different to fitting a skylight through a thick roof and having a gap showing between the 2 parts , flat white plastc strip stuck with d/sided foam tape and the corners siliconed . he should grab the opportunity to change it for a mini-heki. much better opening and loads more light !

 

[colinm]

If original vent can't be found then the larger Fiamma roof vents can cater for 25mm to 70mm roof thicknesses, this would normally be flat, but he might be able to 'bodge' something, other than that it would be make up a 'liner' for the aperture.

 

[Byronic]

Can be better to fix the rooflight itself to a separate under roof
skin frame using standard length s/s screws and the ceiling lining
to it's own frame, then they can be any distance apart just scribe
the lining to taper on 2 sides to suit, and screw fix a handful of
metal hangers to keep the 2 frames the required distance apart.
The Fiamma 400x400 roof vent has to be fitted like this because there
is no facility on the plastic ceiling inner trim frame to enable the 2 frames
to be screwed together.

Mini Hekis cost double the Fiamma/MPK price though.

 

[Nabsim]

Can be better to fix the rooflight itself to a separate under roof
skin frame using standard length s/s screws and the ceiling lining
to it's own frame, then they can be any distance apart just scribe
the lining to taper on 2 sides to suit, and screw fix a handful of
metal hangers to keep the 2 frames the required distance apart.
The Fiamma 400x400 roof vent has to be fitted like this because there
is no facility on the plastic ceiling inner trim frame to enable the 2 frames
to be screwed together.

Mini Hekis cost double the Fiamma/MPK price though.

Mini heki go for around £96 for the 400x400 model, think that’s what I will use over the bed as it looks a nice bit of kit.

 

[n brown]

i like them , they open right up, you can see through them when closed, they let in loads of light and have a flynet and blackout blind included. and they're tough, i've dropped one off a roof onto concrete and it bounced !

 

[Nabsim]

i like them , they open right up, you can see through them when closed, they let in loads of light and have a flynet and blackout blind included. and they're tough, i've dropped one off a roof onto concrete and it bounced !

I am impressed with our front one but don’t know exactly what model it is, winds up instead of a push bar or you can squeeze and push each side to get smaller opening. Goes vertical to allow roof access as well

 

[GeoffL]

I don't know whether they'll help, but my friend has sent me some photos. Right now the water is held at bay by some heavy duty poly sheet in place of the original dome (and I suspect he's praying for no rain!). He's asked his local dealer, who says they can't help because of the age of the van So he'd welcome any info to help source a replacement.

Thanks, Geoff

 

[colinm]

Brain fade means I can't think of make, but that looks like a standard off the shelf one still available!

 

[n brown]

sounds like he's unwilling to settle for anything less than an exact replacement

 

[Byronic]

Looks like an MBK, If an original fitting then it's going to be
over 25 years ancient, mouldings and details are likely to have changed in
the meantime.
So long as the roof cut out dims. match, many rooflights will
drop in. It may be that screw hole positions may not coincide.
With the Fiamma 400x400 the exterior plastic frame screw fixes
through the roof skin to a frame, usually just wood 40mm width X
roof thickness depth, it doesn't rely on screwing the outer frame to the
interior frame cramping the ceiling lining and roof skin together.
The ceiling lining is screwed to the underside of the wood frame the inner
plastic decorative frame covers these screws.
So if the roof tapers the wood frame can be scribed to suit any taper.
It may be possible to reuse any inner parallel or tapering linings
The main thing is that the roof flange sits as flat as possible on the
roof, no making up any discrepancies by tapering!
The best sealant Sikaflex Elastomer 710 always remains plastic rather
than elastic can be messy to apply, but allows removal without ripping
the roof off!

 

[GeoffL]

sounds like he's unwilling to settle for anything less than an exact replacement

Not true, he'll settle for a functional equivalent. As Byronic mentioned, it looks like an MPK -- but the van is mid to late 1990s and so it'll be a model from a couple of decades ago. As the MPK works by screwing the inner to the outer, thus clamping the roof between the two assemblies, it won't work here. From Byronic's post, I suspect the Fiamma 400 x 400 might do the job.

 

[n brown]

clamping probably would work, just use longer screws where needed. or if he has a preference that has to be clamped and he doesn't want to then just drill screwholes in the flanges of the 2 sides. it really is that simple

 

[Byronic]

clamping probably would work, just use longer screws where needed. or if he has a preference that has to be clamped and he doesn't want to then just drill screwholes in the flanges of the 2 sides. it really is that simple

MBK Types:
The frame being screw fixed to probably has a drilled integral plastic
stud, if the taper is quite pronounced then angle that the screw meets
the stud may not allow a straight enough entry!....result stud splits.

The inner frame on the MBKs looks clean & pleasing because you don't see
screw heads or plastic plugs. Would not your screwing the frames
together suggestions not compromise that? I dunno, these things are much better
sorted when seen in the flesh as it were.

 

[GeoffL]

MBK Types:
The frame being screw fixed to probably has a drilled integral plastic
stud, if the taper is quite pronounced then angle that the screw meets
the stud may not allow a straight enough entry!....result stud splits.[...]

This was precisely the issue with the MPK I originally suggested before I understood that the roof thickness tapers. Just by offering up the assemblies, you could see that the screws would enter the mating holes at an angle and that the screw guides on the lower assembly did not line up with the screw holes in the upper assembly. I was going to suggest he might be able to use the spiders and dome from a new MPK 400x400 to replace the damaged dome assembly of the original equipment, but he'd already returned the skylight. I know that you can buy a "dome with handles" assembly (here from Leisure Shop Direct), but I can't say that'll fit without knowing the dimensions for both new and old. Perhaps he might be able to order one on a "return if it doesn't fit" basis. Then again, the Fiamma skylight isn't massively more expensive than the MPK dome assembly.

 

[Byronic]

The basic Fiamma is around £43, then if you add the so called Rollo
black out screen then another £35? A bit of shopping around might get
an alternative with maybe integral black out for less. Not certain what is
included in the Heki package.

 

[colinm]

I was going to suggest he might be able to use the spiders and dome from a new MPK 400x400 to replace the damaged dome assembly of the original equipment, but he'd already returned the skylight. I know that you can buy a "dome with handles" assembly (here from Leisure Shop Direct), but I can't say that'll fit without knowing the dimensions for both new and old.

That was what I was going to suggest, have done it on an old skylight myself.