Presumed Planning Consent - Aires

[Deleted member 967]

On the news yesterday it was announced that the Government had issued a notice to local planning authorities, that planning permission was no longer needed for the erection of charging points for electric cars.

These notices are also in force for TV antennas satellite dishes etc.
This type of action is all that is needed by government, to enable local authorities to set up parking places for motorhomes where they can be occupied overnight.

Presumed consent could also apply to the construction of service points.
Private owners would still have to apply for a site licence under the Caravan Sites Act but could be included in the presumed planning consent.

We have situations now where there are parking places where the local authorities have started and withdrawn facilities because they have been informed by their legal departments that although they can set up such facilities under the Caravan Sites Act. The legal guys consider that the authorities have to apply to themselves and go through the expense of meetings to grant themselves permission to set up a parking place that already exists.

It shows that they can do it when they want to.

John

 

[Tbear]

Hi John.

It must help us a little but still the main problem is the reputation that some groups have and the inability of councils to do anything about them, without the civil rights people going mad.

Richard

 

[John H]

It's not so much the inability of the councils to do anything about people who misuse facilities - the laws are there but so often local authorities (and the police) are UNWILLING to use the powers they have. Further, the kind of anti-social activity you talk about is usually committed by people who steer well clear of official stopovers. The reason why this new regulation is unlikely to make any difference to our cause is more to do with perception than reality - councillors don't like stiring up their electorate, so most are happy to do nothing because that tends to annoy their voters least. Sorry to be a cynic but I have experienced all this from the other side and it really is as simple as that.

 

[Tbear]

John

The laws are there for both sides and as long as they have children with them, they have human rights on their side. We do not punish the kids for the sins of their parents.
Its not that the council are unwilling or cannot be bothered, its the huge amount of time and our money that it takes for them to have a minor victory. You move them on to create another problem a mile or two down the road and start again. Asbo, community service, fines - how are you going to enforce them? Are you going to lock them up and put the kids in care on a charge of poor parking. I think not. I hate to stick up for the politicians but on a local level their hands are tied. Its time for Europe as a whole to sort this one out and whats the chances of that happening.

Sorry if thats a bit of a rant but I have been working with my local council for a while, trying to find a spot for a local aire and its not easy thanks to these people and some other sectors of our society.

Richard

 

[Deleted member 967]

John

The laws are there for both sides and as long as they have children with them, they have human rights on their side. We do not punish the kids for the sins of their parents.
Its not that the council are unwilling or cannot be bothered, its the huge amount of time and our money that it takes for them to have a minor victory. You move them on to create another problem a mile or two down the road and start again. Asbo, community service, fines - how are you going to enforce them? Are you going to lock them up and put the kids in care on a charge of poor parking. I think not. I hate to stick up for the politicians but on a local level their hands are tied. Its time for Europe as a whole to sort this one out and whats the chances of that happening.

Sorry if thats a bit of a rant but I have been working with my local council for a while, trying to find a spot for a local aire and its not easy thanks to these people and some other sectors of our society.

Richard

We are getting mixed up with Aires for Motorhomes and illegal traveller encampments.

In France every community with 5000 residents MUST provide a place for traveller to stop en route. In addition some provide Aires for Motorhomes. Many smaller communities also see the benefit of providing Aire facilities.

Our politicians are hell bent on preventing travellers from continuing their nomadic existence and try to get them to stay in fixed sites instead of providing stopover facilities. As a result we have illegal encampments. It is recognised that there are too few traveller facilities in the UK so they have to take this into consideration when dealing with illegal encampments.

In France and Spain you are allowed to park and occupy your Motorhome off sites provided you only have the tyres in contact with the road for a limited time, anything else put out is considered camping. We need this sort of change introduced in the UK to enable legal wild parking. We have far to many restriction imposed on us in the UK.

In Spain you can stop for 48 hours, in France for 7 days. Local mayors are able to alter these limits but have to have a sound reason for doing so such as market days, fiestas etc.

John

 

[Tbear]

John

No mixup. Not talking about France or Spain or any other single country. We need a combined approach. You only need to look at what happened in France a little while ago when the French government tried to send the illegal occupants of a site home, pictures of poor children plastered all over the worlds press. I am not trying to pick on these people. Just the oppersite, I want to give them a chance to live within the rules but if they chose not to then they cannot expect all the benifits that we tax payers provide for them.
When we have sorted out the problem of large groups of illegal campers, councils will then be much keener to allow legal sites for the rest of us.

Richard

 

[Firefox]

The Gov is going to issue a permits for electrical charging points because that is seen as Green policy and popular.

However, I doubt they will do the same for motorhome parking. Travellers leaving piles of rubbish have given motorhomes a bad reputation which can't be shaken off. This has been further reinforced by legitimate motorhomers, who maybe don't leave rubbish, but will selfishly occupy (say) seafront parking for weeks and weeks on end. This has led to MORE parking restrictions for motorhomes on seafronts, not less.

We all did out bit last summer, including me, in the suggestions for policy websites put out by the new coalition. Let's see if they act on it. I don't hold out much hope.

 

[John H]

John

The laws are there for both sides and as long as they have children with them, they have human rights on their side. We do not punish the kids for the sins of their parents.
Its not that the council are unwilling or cannot be bothered, its the huge amount of time and our money that it takes for them to have a minor victory. You move them on to create another problem a mile or two down the road and start again. Asbo, community service, fines - how are you going to enforce them? Are you going to lock them up and put the kids in care on a charge of poor parking. I think not. I hate to stick up for the politicians but on a local level their hands are tied. Its time for Europe as a whole to sort this one out and whats the chances of that happening.

Sorry if thats a bit of a rant but I have been working with my local council for a while, trying to find a spot for a local aire and its not easy thanks to these people and some other sectors of our society.

Richard

I'm sorry but if someone breaks the rules there are laws to be enforced - and whether or not they have children with them is a complete red herring. Would you or anyone else honestly think that the police wouldn't or shouldn't arrest a burgler if his defence is that he had his son with him to learn the ropes!! If any local politician, policeman or anyone else has tried to tell you that nothing can be done because of "human rights" then, quite simply, they are lying - and probably lying in order to make their lives easier because doing nothing is a lot less bothersome for them than doing something. When I was a local councillor I virtually went to war with the local police inspector because he said nothing could be done abour motorcyclists on footpaths unless we passed a bye-law. To cut a long story short, I won and he was forced to use one of the dozens of laws in existence to do something.

 

[Tbear]

I'm sorry but if someone breaks the rules there are laws to be enforced - and whether or not they have children with them is a complete red herring. Would you or anyone else honestly think that the police wouldn't or shouldn't arrest a burgler if his defence is that he had his son with him to learn the ropes!! If any local politician, policeman or anyone else has tried to tell you that nothing can be done because of "human rights" then, quite simply, they are lying - and probably lying in order to make their lives easier because doing nothing is a lot less bothersome for them than doing something. When I was a local councillor I virtually went to war with the local police inspector because he said nothing could be done abour motorcyclists on footpaths unless we passed a bye-law. To cut a long story short, I won and he was forced to use one of the dozens of laws in existence to do something.

John

Its one thing to take a bike off some twit but its a whole different ball game to arrest the driver of a motorhome when he is the sole driver and earner, when the wife and three young kids are left in the illegally parked motorhome. One involves a chat with the local police (that sorted our local problem with motorbikes on paths) the other involves Police, Social Services and several council depatments all at huge expence. Then he gets out and moves down the road and it all starts again. But if you have worked for a council you know all this.

*****

A sad fact and I am ashamed of it but I could not agree more.


Richard

 

[John H]

John

Its one thing to take a bike off some twit but its a whole different ball game to arrest the driver of a motorhome when he is the sole driver and earner, when the wife and three young kids are left in the illegally parked motorhome. One involves a chat with the local police (that sorted our local problem with motorbikes on paths) the other involves Police, Social Services and several council depatments all at huge expence. Then he gets out and moves down the road and it all starts again. But if you have worked for a council you know all this.

Richard

No it ISN'T a different ball game. If laws are being broken then they should be enforced. Your argument about expense and the involvement of other agencies could equally well be applied to every other crime, from disqualification from driving for speeding to murder.

And your point about sorting out your problem with motorbikes only reinforces what I am saying - the laws are there to be enforced if the police want to. In my illustration, they didn't want to and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into reality.

 

[Firefox]

Anyway this is all a bit of a moot point. Much as I'd like to see more dedicated motorhome parking, who really needs it? Just find a nice quiet side street in some leafy suburb not directly outside someone's house. Use your blackout curtains with low lights, and move on the next morning.