More Honda eu10i generator questions

[barge1914]

May I ask a few questions of those who own one of these. Thinking of getting one before this years ‘leisurely’ winter trip to the far north of Scotland…an increasingly regular event now our son lives in Edinburgh. But we would like to be clear of a few things first.

Before you say the eu20i is better…and I would agree…we simply have nowhere to put one of that size in our small van…same applies to the more bulky lpg version.

1. Storage. We can’t carry it in an outside locker as we don’t have one big enough, so it will have to go in an under bench locker inside (it just fits)…so…do they smell particularly? Not keen to abide with the heady aromas of petrol!
2. For the van we only need it to charge batteries. Although our electricity consumption is normally low, if the weather is very cold even though our tanks are insulated, they are external, so we may need to run tank heaters at least some of the time, and also have the Truma gas air heating fan to run, which overnight will all pull the batteries (of which we have two) down somewhat. So how many hours do you find it usually takes it take to restore a reasonable days charge?
3. How much petrol per hour do you consume for battery charging (20A smart charger)? Limited space also means only one 5L container can be carried (in unused gas locker).
4. Not quite motorhoming…but aside…do you know if one of these will power a domestic central heating pump during power cuts…( ie can it handle startup surges?) And if so what is the best way of connecting to domestic system…can you just turn off mains switch and other loads and feed back in via a socket in the garage?
5. How long does petrol stay fresh in storage?

It would be nice to think we could get away without a generator…but I suspect if weather conditions in Jan-Feb unexpectedly mean a few days hunkering down somewhere off grid around the north or west coast the batteries would soon run down and we may get distinctly chilly. There doesn’t exactly appear to be a host of places with hook up still open to retreat to at that time of year!

 

[barge1914]

Honda generators

Hi
Further question, for charging batteries is it best to use the 240v output with the vans charger, or the genes 12v output? If the latter how should it be connected?

 

[Fazerloz]

Through your 240v ehu the vans charger will have a larger output than the DC side of the genny.

 

[Robmac]

Just remembered you asked about fuel going off if left in the tank.
With our previous larger geny, we started it every few weeks and never drained it or had a problem.
However, I have added some stabiliser to the fuel in our new geny!

Briggs & Stratton Fuel Fit Additive/Stabiliser. 992381: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Thanks for that Graham.

Just ordered some.

 

[Fazerloz]

Getting back to the opening post.
Not as I am an electrician, but if I were going to use the geny for any household stuff, I would go for the larger Honda eu20i
I did a quick test when we had ours and it would run necessary equipment. I doubt that the smaller eu10i would.
Even with the larger one, you would need to seriously limit what you turned on. Thinking of as well as the heating pump the freezer, tv and lights!
You need to calculate the wattage of equipment you wish to use!

" Before you say the eu20i is better…and I would agree…we simply have nowhere to put one of that size in our small van…same applies to the more bulky lpg version."

If you are going back to the original post why go on about the 20i the OP has no room for one.

 

[chilltimes]

I have an EU10i as a back up in my van when I'm away wilding. I've used it a couple of times to top up the leisure batteries, this takes a few hours and once to recharge the starter battery when it went flat trying to start the van one cold morning. Since I have fitted a Sterling battery to battery charger I've not used the generator. I now don't bother taking it away with me.

 

[barge1914]

Battery to battery charger

I have an EU10i as a back up in my van when I'm away wilding. I've used it a couple of times to top up the leisure batteries, this takes a few hours and once to recharge the starter battery when it went flat trying to start the van one cold morning. Since I have fitted a Sterling battery to battery charger I've not used the generator. I now don't bother taking it away with me.

So I must ask...how long do you have to travel/ run the engine to fully recharge a pair of depleted batteries, and also what does this solution cost to install? And can you be sure of the engine battery remaining adequately charged?

Can anyone who has used tank heaters in anger in sub zero temperatures give an idea what percentage of the time these actually run.

 

[barge1914]

Generator / Battery to battery charger

So I must ask...how long do you have to travel/ run the engine to fully recharge a pair of depleted batteries, and also what does this solution cost to install? And can you be sure of the engine battery remaining adequately charged?

Can anyone who has used tank heaters in anger in sub zero temperatures give an idea what percentage of the time these actually run.

OK, I suppose I should be able to answer this for my self, so thinking aloud (or in writing)…

To charge 2 batteries of approximately 200AH capacity from 40% to 80% needs 80AH of charge, which at max charge rate of 1/5 of battery capacity (40A) takes 2 hours. To get them up through the absorption stage to a full charge would need I guess another 2 hours. Assuming of course the battery to battery charger has min. 40A rating (so I think costing somewhere around £350).

However this assumes we travel at least 2 hours every day…which frequently we don’t, and that we don’t stop longer than 1 day…hmmm.

On a similar basis using a gene with our existing 20A smart charger would need 4 hours running to get to 80% and another 2 to get to a full charge. If we fitted a 40A charger that would come down to 2 hours for 80% (But another approx £300 on top of the £750 for the gene).

For the 10 or so days a year when realistically we may have no other option than to use a gene: allowing for purchase and fuel cost spread over 5 years, the daily cost of a gene would work out at around £20-25 per day of use (the difference depending on whether we got a larger charger)…as much as or more than a campsite.

So unless we were to seriously increase our time totally off grid in winter in places where campsites are not an option the gene seems a rather expensive luxury.

For the same number of days the costs for the battery to battery charger would work out at £7 per day, plus perhaps a small increase in fuel consumption on the engine…but of course we would benefit also on all those other grey days from October to March when the solar panels are not producing much. The really critical situation is that of getting stuck in adverse weather conditions somewhere off grid in the north of Scotland for a few days with no viable means of charging..

I guess our greatest bugbear is the power consumption of the tank heaters, without that our power use is relatively low, even with the Truma running. So perhaps I need to revisit the thought I floated in a previous post of using a thermostatic valve to dump hot water from the gas heated Truma into the external cold water tank when it gets too cold.

If I can make that work, then the battery to battery charger solution sounds reasonably practical. And in extremis with this provided we can eliminate the tank heater issue we could simply run the engine for an hour or so…I doubt mid winter off grid in the north we would have many neighbours to upset. I know the arguments against running diesels off load for long periods, but occasionally… its not much different to crawling through London traffic!

Can anyone see any flaws in the logic?

Or give some feedback on actual daily tank heater consumption.

 

[Fazerloz]

In your costings over a five year period you should take into account what you could get back money wise after the 5 years selling the genny or b to b . If the intention is to change the van after the 5 years most would keep the genny and take it to the next van as it is not a integral part of the van, whereas the b to b is more so a integral part and less likely to be removed.
With the b to b did you include the cost of installation and the cost of a 1000w 240v continuous invertor so you are comparing like for like in capabilities.

 

[barge1914]

Genny/ B to B

In your costings over a five year period you should take into account what you could get back money wise after the 5 years selling the genny or b to b . If the intention is to change the van after the 5 years most would keep the genny and take it to the next van as it is not a integral part of the van, whereas the b to b is more so a integral part and less likely to be removed.
With the b to b did you include the cost of installation and the cost of a 1000w 240v continuous invertor so you are comparing like for like in capabilities.

Hi

Good point, if we can find anything that we like we may well change...but as a previous post of mine...so far we haven't seen anything, however...

Assuming the gene may fetch about £300 secondhand the daily cost for that would come down to around £15. Or if I kept it 10 years £14...still expensive. Cant think too far ahead...in 10 years I'll be 81.

Since everything we need on the van is 12V, an invertor isn't a requirement, all I'm really concerned about is to be able to keep batteries charged.

 

[barge1914]

Genny/ B to B

When we are off grid during winter time with little or no solar charge, we do conserve our battery power and would run the geny every day we did not move. We find that one and a half hours maximum running is required.
I work on the principal a little often! Works for us!

Hi *****
Sounds good, but is that in the depth of a freezing winter? I suspect your nice big van doesn't have those daft tank heaters.

 

[barge1914]

Genny/ B to B

We had them on the Swift but never used them as they seem such a stupid idea on something that should be properly winterised !
In really cold conditions never close your Waste tank just catch in a bowl or bucket if you can't discharge onto the ground.
We were out in freezing conditions and never had the fresh water tank freezing but it was under the floor in a housing but not insulated or heated but I think some of the vans warmth kept it warm enough.
All the other vans we have had internal tanks and heated valves .
In my opinion a generator is a must have for any serious winter camping off ehu for more than a couple of days.

Hi
Yes daft they certainly are, ours too is a Swift (Bessacarr). I was thinking of disconnecting the one on the waste tank to do what you describe and reduce the power draw to 5A intermittently (but how intermittent I don't as yet know). However, despite being covered in stick-on foam insulation, the fresh water tank has a large surface area and a fresh air gap separating it from the insulated floor above so no chance of borrowed heat...so without added heat from somewhere all the insulation does is delay the contents freezing. Fine when temperatures are only a few degrees below at night, but no good for an all day deep freeze.

I should also mention that the 5.8m van doesn't have enough spare storage space to accommodate a meaningful internal tank. To carry the genny anyway we would have to chuck out the chairs and barbeque (space and weight reasons)...fine in Scotland in winter, but not so welcome on those early / late season trips that we enjoy across the Alps heading to/from warmer places.

 

[trevskoda]

Hi

Good point, if we can find anything that we like we may well change...but as a previous post of mine...so far we haven't seen anything, however...

Assuming the gene may fetch about £300 secondhand the daily cost for that would come down to around £15. Or if I kept it 10 years £14...still expensive. Cant think too far ahead...in 10 years I'll be 81.

Since everything we need on the van is 12V, an invertor isn't a requirement, all I'm really concerned about is to be able to keep batteries charged.

Then all you require is one of the litle 2 strokes giving about 750/850w which will run 4 hrs on 4 ltrs fuel,cost is from about £75 to £90 depending on where you buy,i bought a large amount for £50 each and sold on for £70 if i can remember correct.
Mine has a 12v output but its better to plug into 230v outlet then into van plug which will power you charger which in turn should top up both starter and service battery,if not use a charge splitter or relay to join up with a switch on dash.
As far as the house you can get a a/b switch which connects between meter and fuse box ,cost about £40 ,so mains goes on a and geny goes to b post.
House heating pump uses about 40w so a small geny as iv shown wil do that and led bulbs tv etc but a fridge will burn easy 600w and more on start up so you will be on limit with this geny.
If using a electric cooker then a 2500/2800 petrol or derv geny will be required to run hot plates etc but not a full blown oven.

 

[barge1914]

Then all you require is one of the litle 2 strokes giving about 750/850w which will run 4 hrs on 4 ltrs fuel,cost is from about £75 to £90 depending on where you buy,i bought a large amount for £50 each and sold on for £70 if i can remember correct.
Mine has a 12v output but its better to plug into 230v outlet then into van plug which will power you charger which in turn should top up both starter and service battery,if not use a charge splitter or relay to join up with a switch on dash.
As far as the house you can get a a/b switch which connects between meter and fuse box ,cost about £40 ,so mains goes on a and geny goes to b post.
House heating pump uses about 40w so a small geny as iv shown wil do that and led bulbs tv etc but a fridge will burn easy 600w and more on start up so you will be on limit with this geny.
If using a electric cooker then a 2500/2800 petrol or derv geny will be required to run hot plates etc but not a full blown oven.

Ok Thanks for the info.

What will this charger do that my existing 20A Sterling Charger won't?

I have a space under a seat that will just accommodate the shape and size of the Honda eu10i,. Sadly this one and most I've looked at are more bulky and don't fit anywhere convenient; we don't really want one wandering round inside the accommodation...its small enough all ready!

 

[trevskoda]

Ok Thanks for the info.

What will this charger do that my existing 20A Sterling Charger won't?

I have a space under a seat that will just accommodate the shape and size of the Honda eu10i,. Sadly this one and most I've looked at are more bulky and don't fit anywhere convenient; we don't really want one wandering round inside the accommodation...its small enough all ready!

What charger,just plug the geny into you ehu socket on van and it will power your onboard charger which will top your batterys up,use either a relay or charge splitter so both service and cranking battery get charged up.

 

[Octaviaslanter]

My experience is that people want (a) easy and (b) cheap. (No ex-wife jokes here) so I'll focus on portable units.
Where are you going to (1) store your generator (2) set up the generator to use it? Remember, it may be severe weather so, where could you put it to keep it safe and be able to refuel it easily? If you're using power cords, will they be dry and as far out of the way as possible?
Small generators (less than 5500 watts) can only do so much. If you overload the unit and damage it, you won't have any power at all. So be smart! Portable units are made up to almost 20k watts but they're not for people on budgets.
The bottom line is to add up the load (watts) you plan to connect and size your generator at least 25% higher. When motors like the compressor in the refrigerator start up there is a sudden draw of power higher than the normal running load and you want to compensate for that.
Small appliances will have the wattage marked on them. Lighting circuits will be less than 1200 watts each. Water heater is 4500 watts alone.
Also,you'll truly get what you pay for...unless you buy from one of those guys selling from the back of their pick-up truck (don't do that). Don't wait till the last minute or you'll be stuck with whatever is left in the stores. However, I got a small Cummins one in the end.
Oh, and the "trick" with connecting the generator to the dryer outlet to backfeed the house? DON'T YOU DARE!! It will result in damage and/or injury...
Hope that helped a little...sorry it's so wordy

 

[Octaviaslanter]

I purchased a Propane Generator from Central Maine Diesel a few years ago.

20 HP Honda engine, Italian generator head.
Paid about $2300 plus shipping via Paradise Freight which was a few hundred.
I see the price is just a bit higher now...