Knowepark outshine Brownhills Hymer

[The laird]

Here's my stoty

 

[iandsm]

I speak for myself and for my own experience having bought a new motorhome from Brownhills several years ago i had the unfortunate experience of it being serviced by them. The purchase was okay but after sales and the standard of work was abysmal and ended up costing me far more than it should, when damage to the Truma boiler was pointed out the girl on reception accused me of damaging it myself before their "technician" touched it. They removed and resealed a window which had a small leak and on replacing it put a screw straight though the frame which caused a worse leak and of course denied all knowledge. Now I wouldn't trust them to clean a Motorhome. Of course the recollections of others may vary.

 

[Pauljenny]

I'm surprised that Brownhills is still trading.
My personal experiences with them have all been unsatisfactory and many others have complained about them .
It's hard to find a true Good ' Un.

 

[Fisherman]

I bought my first van from Knowepark a Chausson 510. I had issues with the van but they dealt with them no problems. Sadly they don’t sell either my last van a Roller Team, or my current van a Rapido. If they did I would have went back to them.

 

[The Jacks]

We have had two Caravans and two Motorhomes from Knowpark and and isues we had with the first three were delt with firstly by Grants father and more recently with Grant were rectified swiftly and very professionally,we got a new van from them in July and for now everything is great with it,but any future problems will hopefully be dealt with in the same manner.
Wouldn't go anywhere else.
I would also like to add that Russell the service manager is great as well.

 

[The laird]

Tonight I drafted a email to brownhills letting them know about their poor service ,will see if Darren replies to me which I think he will

 

[The laird]

Update ,got a reply from Darren Leadbetter at brownhills,he thanked me for drawing it to his attention and will look into and get back to me

 

[gasgas]

I bought a new Rapido with an electric drop down bed from Brownhills. They had it back three times to rectify the bed intermittently not working. They failed to fix it and advised me to contact Rapido for the bed's installation and maintenance manual. Apparently Brownhills, a Rapido agent, do not have installation and maintenance manuals for the products they sell. Rapido advised me to contact Project 2000 in Italy for the manual. Project 2000 had an excellent English speaking chap who not only sent me the manual but advised me on wonderful places in Italy to go in the camper.
I followed the bed's wiring diagram and found an 8 pin plug and socket where the chassis wiring connects to the bed frame wiring. One of the eight metal pins was sticking far out of its plastic socket, so there was an intermittent electrical contact. This was in plain sight, I didn't even need to go to Spec Savers to see it. The wiring, even if the plug and socket had been done correctly did not conform to the specification required by the bed manufacturer. I chopped out the 8 pin plug and socket and soldered and insulated all the wires. Then the bed worked, reliably. Until one day the long shaft that the belts rotate around fell out of its bearing at one end causing one corner of the bed (over the driver's cab area) to collapse. Up with this I will no longer put so I returned it to Brownhills and after some semi-heated discussion I said that as it was all a manufacturing fault and not something they had inflicted on the vehicle I would take another camper from their forecourt to the same value. They agreed. I selected another non-Rapido vehicle which cost £400 more, and the salesman printed out the paperwork. The bottom right hand corner of the invoice he printed required me to pay £8800. I gasped, and said no, it's £400 not £8800. "Oh", he said "That's the VAT. We can't give you back the VAT". Oh yes you jolly well can I thought and off I went without the new camper to see my friend who is a VAT inspector. He said yes they are required by law to give you back what you paid, including VAT. The reason they are trying to get out of it is they have to charge VAT on a new vehicle but they can't on a used one. So they would lose the VAT. So they try to get around the law by not refunding the VAT.

So the only reason I will stop at Brownhills is to use their free coffee machine and to waste a salesman's time as much time as possible. I will never buy another Rapido because it is impossible, even for a French man with a string of onions around his striped Tee shirt, smoking a Galoise and drinking a glass of red wine, not to notice that one pin of an 8 pin plug is sticking out of the plug body and therefore won't make the connection. So their Quality Control consists of "Shove it down the line and out of the factory quickly - it's our two hour lunch break in 30 minutes". As for Brownhills workshop - either they are blind -which would mean they can't work there - or they don't care - or they are incompetent - or they are not fit to represent any motorhome manufacturer. Or, being kinder to the actual technician, maybe the workshop manager gave the guy ten minutes to fix it or else just give it back to the customer. Clearly they don't keep the installation and repair manuals for the stuff they are selling.
As for the salesmen's knowledge, one of them boasted to me that last week he was selling double glazing and he could sell snow to eskimos.

 

[izwozral]

Like Gordon the Laird we used to sing the praises for Oaktree Motorhomes of Nottingham. They were 90 miles from us but we were willing to drive the distance because we felt we could trust them. I'll not bore you with the details other than we had a problem with the airbag sensor. After a lot of searching we managed to locate a replacement, which also failed 9 months later.
Despite us having the Platinum aftersales warranty they refused to pay for a replacement even though we paid for the previous replacement ourselves!
When I objected and argued our case, I was suddenly surrounded by four staff, the atmosphere totally changed from that point on and I realised I was on a hiding to nothing.
On reflection, my guess is that they felt we had our monies worth from the Platinum warranty and we were damn well not getting anymore.
Very short sighted way of doing business because we wouldn't touch them with a barge pole now and nor would we promote them.

 

[QFour]

We have three Dealers near us in Nottingham. Lowdhams who we bought a Swift from ( Never Again ) the new Coffee shop is good and we pick the odd bit up from the shop. SMC who we bought a Pilote from ( Never Again ) when the electric bed jammed the service manager suggested the site warden would probably know how to sort it. When I said we were by the sea in a car park he wanted to know why I wanted the bed down and then enquired if it was perfectly flat front to back and sideways. Everyone seems to know about Brownhills. SWMBO stood in a £100,000 Swift and the small access hole in the floor gave way. Shops not bad and you can get a coffee. Most of the places we just have a wander round. For service we drive down to Southdowns in Portsmouth.

 

[Fisherman]

We have three Dealers near us in Nottingham. Lowdhams who we bought a Swift from ( Never Again ) the new Coffee shop is good and we pick the odd bit up from the shop. SMC who we bought a Pilote from ( Never Again ) when the electric bed jammed the service manager suggested the site warden would probably know how to sort it. When I said we were by the sea in a car park he wanted to know why I wanted the bed down and then enquired if it was perfectly flat front to back and sideways. Everyone seems to know about Brownhills. SWMBO stood in a £100,000 Swift and the small access hole in the floor gave way. Shops not bad and you can get a coffee. Most of the places we just have a wander round. For service we drive down to Southdowns in Portsmouth.

What annoys me is once you buy a van from any dealer, even one you are pleased with, you are stuck with them. On a recent trip with our new van we noticed that our B2B was not working. The van was only one month old, we had no solar at this point, and the only way we could charge our battery was by driving the van. It turned out that the B2B was a faulty Nordelectronica unit, and had to be replaced. I had the work done by a small company who also gave me a detailed report. Well I am having difficulty having my costs refunded, because I did not go to a Rapido dealership. But only one of them would do warranty work. And if I had went to them, (they were over 100 miles away in the wrong direction) they don’t carry the B2B unit, and our trip would have been finished.
If I decided never to go to a dealership who had poor reports on here, and elsewhere, then I would have nowhere left to go. But it’s time this situation was dealt with. If I buy a particular make of car, I can go to any car dealership who sells them for warranty work, it should be the same for us with motorhomes.

 

[QFour]

What annoys me is once you buy a van from any dealer, even one you are pleased with, you are stuck with them. On a recent trip with our new van we noticed that our B2B was not working. The van was only one month old, we had no solar at this point, and the only way we could charge our battery was by driving the van. It turned out that the B2B was a faulty Nordelectronica unit, and had to be replaced. I had the work done by a small company who also gave me a detailed report. Well I am having difficulty having my costs refunded, because I did not go to a Rapido dealership. But only one of them would do warranty work. And if I had went to them, (they were over 100 miles away in the wrong direction) they don’t carry the B2B unit, and our trip would have been finished.
If I decided never to go to a dealership who had poor reports on here, and elsewhere, then I would have nowhere left to go. But it’s time this situation was dealt with. If I buy a particular make of car, I can go to any car dealership who sells them for warranty work, it should be the same for us with motorhomes.

These Dealers just buy MHs from the Manufacturers. The Manufacturer does not give a warranty to the end user the Dealer does. Your contract is with the Dealer you bought it from and he is the one who sorts it. An example is a leaking tap. Carthago provided a new tap and pay the Dealer 1/4 hour labour but not at the Dealer rate at the rate set by Carthago. The Dealer will then spends an hour fixing it and is expected to absorb the extra cost from the profit they made. Repairing MHs for people who didn't buy from them can of course be expensive in terms of not being able to charge for labour.

 

[Fisherman]

These Dealers just buy MHs from the Manufacturers. The Manufacturer does not give a warranty to the end user the Dealer does. Your contract is with the Dealer you bought it from and he is the one who sorts it. An example is a leaking tap. Carthago provided a new tap and pay the Dealer 1/4 hour labour but not at the Dealer rate at the rate set by Carthago. The Dealer will then spends an hour fixing it and is expected to absorb the extra cost from the profit they made. Repairing MHs for people who didn't buy from them can of course be expensive in terms of not being able to charge for labour.

Next month I am taking the van to a Fiat dealer and they are checking out the battery, alternator, and radio aerial. I have given them no business whatsoever, and yet they have to do warranty work in order to keep their franchise. Motorhome manufacturers could do likewise. Also it may well balance out with owners taking their vans to other dealers meaning that work that would have been done by the selling dealer could have been done elsewhere.

 

[QFour]

Next month I am taking the van to a Fiat dealer and they are checking out the battery, alternator, and radio aerial. I have given them no business whatsoever, and yet they have to do warranty work in order to keep their franchise. Motorhome manufacturers could do likewise. Also it may well balance out with owners taking their vans to other dealers meaning that work that would have been done by the selling dealer could have been done elsewhere.

I have been taking our MHs to the local Fiat Professional for a few now. Last time I said it just needs the oil and filters doing. Went to pick it up £480 inc vat. Its not going there again. Local workshop quoted £290 inc vat and a free MOT. So they can have my business from now on.

MH Dealers are just that Dealers living in the past and no worrying about service as there is always another punter coming through the door. Workshops run on a shoestring and sod the customer. I got fed up with the Swift we had. The service dept couldn't be trusted to do anything. Take it back with a list of faults and they would repair one and not have enough time to sort the others. Repaired it all myself in the end. New seat covers, window blind, joinery and a lot of time. Kept a list of all the bits and time and sent the Dealer an invoice £1980. Judges like invoices as you can put down on the Small Claims Court documents Unpaid Invoice. The Dealer first tried to get Swift to pay it. They refused saying it was nothing to do with them. The Dealer then said they would not pay so they received a load of paper in the mail from Northampton Court. They paid the invoice one week before we went to court so they had to pay the £80 Court costs.

 

[gasgas]

Well done QFour. I also recently had a case that went to the small claims court, and like you I won. I think the dealers assume that most punters are wimps -which is probably true, of course - and won't have the courage to face them in court. The problem when buying a faulty £60k motorhome is that it falls outside the Small Claims Court limit of £10k - which on the one hand is generous but on the other is realistic because I had to pay a solicitor £600 to write a 'this is not fit for purpose' letter to Brownhills. Mr Solicitor said I could take Brownhills to court but first he wanted £20,000 deposit which as he put it would 'pay for the first day in court, but not include their considerable expenses if I lost, which I would, not because I am wrong but because the Law is A Ass and they all have funny handshakes. His advice was to just take the faulty camper and part exchange it somewhere.
The time before last that I took a dealer to the small claims court was for the work they did on my car. They were utterly incompetent in spite of their claim to be Mercedes Trained Specialists. They allegedly did the work and in the process broke (literally snapped in half) two heater glow plugs. I took it back and they just shrugged and said there's nothing wrong. I carried out the repair properly and sent them one of the broken glow plugs as evidence and an invoice for my expenses, parts and labour at their rate of £90 an hour. Naturally they refused to pay it saying "We are professionals, you are an amateur". I started the small claims procedure and the day before the hearing they coughed up all my travelling expenses, new glow plugs, labour at £90 an hour, and court fees.
Then there is the franchised Nissan dealer in Coventry. Westway Coventry. "Major service including spark plugs any make £145". I thought that's good I'll get them to do my car. Gave them a weeks notice so they could get the parts in. Took the car, waited a bit, they said it's done, I paid the invoice of £145. Then I noticed they had not included new spark plugs on the invoice so I asked why. Receptionist went round to workshop and came back and said
"Well, SIR, your car is a diesel, and diesels don't have spark plugs". Oh good, she has learned something. Diesels don't have spark plugs. I congratulated her on knowing that fact but it has nothing to do with the fact that my car has a petrol engine, and petrol engines indeed do have spark plugs, which I have paid to be changed.
I shouted across all the customers in the showroom towards the electric car salesman
"You expect me to buy an electric car and you can't even tell the difference between a petrol engine and a diesel engine?"
To the receptionist: "Go away and change the spark plugs"
Patter of tiny feet. She returns.
"Well SIR your car has a Wankel engine and we don't do Wankel Engines"
Me, trying to contain myself:
"I am a Christian and I don't swear. . .. .. but I can't think of anything else to say." Very loudly:" It has four round cylinders with four round pistons and at the top of each cylinder are four valves and a spark plug. Go away and change the spark plugs, like I have paid you to do".
Patter of tiny feet. She returns and says in a sheepish voice:
"We don't know how".

So I had to buy the spark plugs I had already paid the garage to supply and fit, and fit them myself on my driveway at home. I imagine the job interview for a 'technician' at Westway Nissan to run something like this:
Good Morning Alan, welcome to Westway Nissan. Take a seat and I'll ask you a few questions.
Do you know the difference between a petrol engine and a diesel engine?
No.
Can you read a label on the inside of a fuel filler cap?
No
Can you tell the smell of a diesel exhaust and know that it's different to a petrol exhaust?
No.
Can you look at the top of an engine and tell if it is wires or pipes going to each cylinder?
What's a cylinder?
Do you know the difference in sound between a petrol engine and a diesel engine?
No.

That's fine Alan, start Monday at 9am.

 

[QFour]

We had a Pilote from SMC and it needed a reversing camera. I was told that if I fitted it myself I would void any warranty on the electrical system They wouldn't fit the Alpine SatNav I had from the Swift I was trading in so they told me to get it done professionally with a vat invoice.

Took it to the Alpine Dealer in Nottingham to sort. They were happy to help but couldn't tell me how much because they were unsure of the wiring. Went to collect it and had an invoice for £490 + vat. YOU DO GET CAUGHT SOMETIMES

When I sat in the drivers seat the picture on the SatNav was the wrong way round. Complained and they agreed to sort it. It went back and instead of just fitting the correct camera the guy took the new one to bits and swapped the insides. It worked for a few weeks and died as we got off the ferry in France.

The camera they charged me for was £250 so I asked for a refund but they refused. I tried to engage with them but they were having non of it.

So I filled in the Small Claims forms online. Paid my fee and waited. The day came to go to Court and the boss turned up with the technician who fitted it. First thing the Judge asked me was why I wasn't claiming for the whole invoice. I explained they had done the wiring which was ok and the dispute was all about the camera. I would claim for everything she said so I did.

They explained that the camera they fitted showed the wrong image and they had repaired it. So she asked why not just fit a new camera its all the guy wants. After the Boss gave his side of it and the Technician made a complete fool of himself I was asked for my side. I explained what had happened and again said it just needs the correct camera fitting.

Took the Judge about 2 minutes to sum it up. The goods supplied were faulty. You have been given the opertunity to replace the camera on several occasions. Please pay the claimant the total cost of the invoice and refund the vat. I will send the parties involved a written note in a few days. Goodbye everyone.

 

[QFour]

Well done QFour. I also recently had a case that went to the small claims court, and like you I won. I think the dealers assume that most punters are wimps -which is probably true, of course - and won't have the courage to face them in court. The problem when buying a faulty £60k motorhome is that it falls outside the Small Claims Court limit of £10k - which on the one hand is generous but on the other is realistic because I had to pay a solicitor £600 to write a 'this is not fit for purpose' letter to Brownhills. Mr Solicitor said I could take Brownhills to court but first he wanted £20,000 deposit which as he put it would 'pay for the first day in court, but not include their considerable expenses if I lost, which I would, not because I am wrong but because the Law is A Ass and they all have funny handshakes. His advice was to just take the faulty camper and part exchange it somewhere.

What did you do with the MH. If it was Brownhills was it an Autotrail.

 

[gasgas]

After I had got the installation and maintenance manual from the bed manufacturer in Italy, I traced the fault and fixed it. The fault was that the couldn't-care-less moron in the Rapido factory pushed together an 8 pin plug and socket, and couldn't care that one of the pins remained stuck out of the plug body so wasn't touching the other connector. It had to be plainly obvious to the assembly twit, even if he was a Gauloise smoking, red vino-drinking slob just about to go for his two and a half hour lunch break that you can't push together an 8 pin plug and socket without looking at what you are doing. I cut the wretched 8 pin plug and socket out (which in any case did not meet the manufacturer's specifications for current carrying capacity), and soldered each wire to its counterpart, insulating them all with heat shrink sleeving and then insulating the whole connection block. That fixed the electrical fault and I thought hooray I can now use the camper. Then one of the bed shafts which run the width of the bed fell out of its bearing causing that corner of the bed to collapse. Luckily I wasn't driving but that was the last straw. Not wanting to dump this heap of crap on to either a private buyer or an innocent (ha ha!) dealer I did trade it for a different make at Brownhills. It was a Pilote, which turned out to be a very nice van.
The Rapido at Brownhills was the first one in my search that I saw actually working. Before I bought the Rapido I had visited three other motorhome dealers looking for an electric bed-above-the-cab model because it is such a logical use of available space. All three of the dealers I went to had one in stock, but there were three different reasons why they couldn't show me the bed working. All of them such as the hab battery is flat (well if that's true, go and get a battery charger then you moron, if you want to sell me a £65,000 motorhome) , I can't find the key and so on were pathetic. What they really meant I suspect was that the beds all had faults and they hadn't got round to fixing them.
One dealer, the "Posh Executive One with Hugemobiles" in Lincoln had a bargain last-year's-model that I fancied. I looked over it with the salesman and said
"I like this. Only thing is, I had an electric bed one before and it was nothing but trouble and in the end I had to get the workshop manual and fix it myself. I will buy this one for cash if you put in writing that if there is any fault with the bed within one year you will refund my purchase cost in full"
Mr Dealer went red in the face, I'm not kidding, and practically shouted at me "No we won't give you your money back, we will fix it. The trouble with electric beds is that people leave their bedding on the bed and raise it to the ceiling. You mustn't do that, you have to take the bedding off before parking it"
I thought what a load of crap. He doesn't know what he's talking about. There is a microswitch at the top position of the bed and if it doesn't switch off when your bed is at the top position, then just lower the microswitch a few inches. You don't have to burn the motor out forcing it to compress the bedding against the ceiling. What's the point of having to make up your bed every day, you may as well buy a camper without a permanent bed.
I'll never have another camper with an electric bed.

 

[alcam]

Next month I am taking the van to a Fiat dealer and they are checking out the battery, alternator, and radio aerial. I have given them no business whatsoever, and yet they have to do warranty work in order to keep their franchise. Motorhome manufacturers could do likewise. Also it may well balance out with owners taking their vans to other dealers meaning that work that would have been done by the selling dealer could have been done elsewhere.

Pretty sure car dealers make good money on warranty work . I previously assumed motorhomes were the same , apparently not