Is Spanish LPG ok in UK winter?

[Moped]

We are currently filling up with Spanish LPG and plan to return to the UK over the Xmas period. We understand that the Repsol mix is 33% propane and 67% butane. The motorhome will be in storage over the Xmas period and will be returning to Spain mid January. It is the first time we have done a pre Xmas trip to Spain so have never previously had Spanish LPG in our gas bottles during a UK winter. Are there any issues we should be considering as we are concerned about gas freezing solid. Should we be?

 

[Channa]

A good question, and I don't think there is a definitive answer, It does and can get cold in Spain so that indicates it should be ok ,I suggest speaking to the locals and asking for their experiences

When I was testing vans south of france in Jam and feb we carried propane bottles about with us albeit the sites once opened easter time operated on butane, that said I have no accurate idea what the propane /butane mix was

Channa

 

[rockape]

Assuming you are sailing from northern Spain you have no other option.
If sailing from France top up before the channel.
Just a thought.

 

[Glass man]

Boiling points for propane/ butane mixtures

Where are you going to top up in Spain?
Some parts are high up and cold, try to fill in a cold area as you will get more Propane. The mix varies a surprising amount depending on the local need.
NEVER top up in a warm area and then drive to cold, always the other way round.

Look at

Propane Butane Mixures - Evaporation Pressures

Will give you the definitive answer.

 

[trevskoda]

A good question, and I don't think there is a definitive answer, It does and can get cold in Spain so that indicates it should be ok ,I suggest speaking to the locals and asking for their experiences

When I was testing vans south of france in Jam and feb we carried propane bottles about with us albeit the sites once opened easter time operated on butane, that said I have no accurate idea what the propane /butane mix was

Channa

Testing vans in JAM what will they think of next.

 

[harrow]

We are currently filling up with Spanish LPG and plan to return to the UK over the Xmas period. We understand that the Repsol mix is 33% propane and 67% butane. The motorhome will be in storage over the Xmas period and will be returning to Spain mid January. It is the first time we have done a pre Xmas trip to Spain so have never previously had Spanish LPG in our gas bottles during a UK winter. Are there any issues we should be considering as we are concerned about gas freezing solid. Should we be?

Butane gas does not freeze solid in the UK, after all it is stored outside, but your correct about it's usability when it is very cold

 

[Moped]

So can it then be said that a high percentage butane mix will not freeze solid and split the bottles and pipes at sub zero temperatures, but it will not evaporate so will not generate any usable gas until it warms up? My concern was that the bottles and pipes would split whilst the van was in winter UK storage for a few weeks until we return with the van to Spain. We have always previously had UK prophane in our system during a UK winter.

I like the idea of running one bottle down just before the UK return and filling that bottle up in the UK during our drive back from Portsmouth to home.

 

[Channa]

If you can reserve one bottle for UK propane then you have no issues, as for pipes freezing that wont happen the problem is with butane it cant change to a vapour state within your bottle so wont give gas. all its magic occurs in the container it is stored within the liquid gas draws heat through the skin of the bottle and if the temp is too low typically 3 to 4 degrees it struggles to gas

If either reaches freezing point gas is the least of your issues

Channa

 

[phillybarbour]

Learning quite a bit from this thread.

 

[witzend]

Last year my Spanish gas was ok down to -8 in Northern Spain when returning from southern Spain

 

[5andy]

This question has never occured to me however we have filled up in Benidorm twice now and returned to the NE Scotland. I may be tempting fate but we have never had any issues up till now. Just filled up again in Benidorm and will be returning home for Christmas. You just know what’s going to happen.......

 

[r4dent]

Like a lot of others I'd just not thought about this issue and my Gaslow is full of Spanish LPG (or GPL to be pedantic!).

My second bottle is a Calor Propane.
I could act all superior and claim I did this so I wouldn't have a problem with GPL in winter but the real reason I went for 1 refillable and 1 Calor is so I could replace the Calor in UK locations without LPG.

So I will be OK, but more by good luck than good planning.

A great question by the OP.

 

[Caz]

It's not going to freeze and turn to a solid state. Freezing point of butane is about minus 140 degrees Celsius.

It's the boiling point - where it turns from liquid to gas - that causes problems in using it in very cold weather.

 

[BKen2]

Lots of people here have gas pressure issues with Butano in winter especially if it being drawn off for some time ie oven or cenral heating ..they loose pressure ...hench a high demand for the Propane bottles this time of year on some of the local forums .The bottle storage units tend to be outside and it can get very cold from now until May at night as you snowbirds know. So I can imagine some issues with refillables in winter in the UK.

 

[cliveandann]

A good question, and I don't think there is a definitive answer, It does and can get cold in Spain so that indicates it should be ok ,I suggest speaking to the locals and asking for their experiences

When I was testing vans south of france in Jam and feb we carried propane bottles about with us albeit the sites once opened easter time operated on butane, that said I have no accurate idea what the propane /butane mix was

Channa

Here's another useful site
LPG Propane/Butane mixture - myLPG.eu

 

[spigot]

Often topped up in Spain before returning home, I'll bet it's the same stuff all over the country, I doubt if Repsol do a particular blend for a certain area.

I've never had any issues with it, maybe slightly lower pressure in extreme cold, don't let the figures quoted go to your head.

You've got nothing to worry about, unless, maybe, you're planning a motorhome trip to Siberia!

 

[Roger Haworth]

I have had lots of problems with prolonged winter use of lpg in Iberia. I think what happens is that at low temperatures only the propane is vaporising so over time and with repeated fills the proportion of butane in the cylinders increases and the proportion of propane decreases. The problem is worst in the mornings when you turn on the heating. There is often insufficient pressure to stop the regulator cutting off the supply.

 

[harrow]

I have had lots of problems with prolonged winter use of lpg in Iberia. I think what happens is that at low temperatures only the propane is vaporising so over time and with repeated fills the proportion of butane in the cylinders increases and the proportion of propane decreases. The problem is worst in the mornings when you turn on the heating. There is often insufficient pressure to stop the regulator cutting off the supply.

It might be interesting to jerk the van backwards and forewords to shake the gas up to see if it encourages it to perform.

 

[Fazerloz]

Butane gas does not freeze solid in the UK, after all it is stored outside, but your correct about it's usability when it is very cold

You are correct it does not freeze solid here, it would have to be a chilly day -140c

 

[Biggarmac]

It might be interesting to jerk the van backwards and forewords to shake the gas up to see if it encourages it to perform.

The comments on this site often bring amusing pictures to mind.