Insulating my van

delicagirl

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some of you know I have a Mitsubishi 2.5 diesel truck-based, 4x4, german habitation box van known as a delica .. there is a picture of it on my profile...

its a cold 20 year old van. There is no insulation in between the two skins of the van - its a bit like empty cavity walls in old houses. I plan to stick shiny thermal silver coloured insulation fabric inside the storage cupboards (my next job) - but I have no idea how I might fill in the "cavity walls." I have only found a couple of holes in the internal skin - one hole in the internal wall, about 4" square in the overhead-cab-area... so even if I filled that with vermiculite balls it would not really fill much of the walls... the other one is in the rear where the gas water heater used to be, so I could not reach high up from that hole.

I have stuck grey carpet on the wall surrounding the sliding dining area window which I sleep near in the winter.

any other ideas please ? - or am I hoping for the impossible ? thank you
 
Thank you ... my hab box is a single seamless fibre glass body which makes it a great van as it has no damp ingress in it at all.. so.. although I have a Black and decker which I can use... I am a bit reluctant in case I breach the integrity of the fibre glass shell....

would you recommend vermiculite balls - or are there any other products around ? I am VERY loathe to use expanding polystyrene as it seems to have a life of its own...
 
Expanding foam soaks up water. Well the stuff you buy in the tins does. Various sorts but it's horrible to work with. You can buy expanded foam sheet but you would then have to stick it on and then put something over the top of it. Difficult you need one of the Van Conversion guru's like Mr Brown

..
 
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I couldn't resist having a sneaky peak at your delivan, Love it. I used to have a L300 Delica, one of the best vehicles I've ever owned, I lifted the suspension a couple of inches and put 31" mud tyres on it, such a versatile vehicle but getting rare nowadays, I still grin like a cheshire cat when I see one.:)
 
you could drill small holes inside of ply lining and fill with expanding foam,ether from cans which is expensive or go to a boat builder and he will have a 2 pack mixing system and aa gun which he could inject in.
Its your only way unless you strip the van down.
try a canal boat builder as thats the way they do it.
 
I couldn't resist having a sneaky peak at your delivan, Love it. I used to have a L300 Delica, one of the best vehicles I've ever owned, I lifted the suspension a couple of inches and put 31" mud tyres on it, such a versatile vehicle but getting rare nowadays, I still grin like a cheshire cat when I see one.:)


thank you - I have only found one other in the uk at the moment - which had its suspension lifted, and its back end raised up at a 45 degree angle to give more height for steep mountains - but i am not going to do that as its height means it could roll too easily on sideways slopes..... I do go off road with it though and its 4wd has helped me out of sticky situations once or twice. There is one for sale just outside Bristol from shyster dealer dealer I bought mine from....

The basic delica vans are soooooo amazing - there are u-tube clips showing them going through rivers and small lakes and up/down steep steep steeeeeep hills !!!
 
you could drill small holes inside of ply lining and fill with expanding foam,ether from cans which is expensive or go to a boat builder and he will have a 2 pack mixing system and aa gun which he could inject in.
Its your only way unless you strip the van down.
try a canal boat builder as thats the way they do it.

hi trev.. thanks for that - it sounds like a very expensive job.. but I will consider it.... maybe I will try lining the insides as much as poss first and see if that makes a difference next winter. I was in Scotland last December when it was minus 10 and it was a bit parky - but the water did not freeze and I wore a woolly hat all the time - I did use a gas bottle in a week tho.....
 
As I see it you have to main options: fill the cavity or clad the inside with something thermal.

From a usability point of view I'd imagine that filling the cavity would be the best option as it saves you losing any more space, however, from an installation point of view it would be pretty awkward.

You've a few options - expanding foam would seem pretty nightmarish as you'd need lots of holes and i'm not sure whether there might be issues with distortion of the skins depending on how thin/thick they are and the pressure/heat of curing. loose fill along the lines of recycled bottle type loft insulation would be doable but would still need some largish holes high up so that you could stuff it in (so as to speak). Loose fill / vermiculite might work well but i'm not sure easy the roof would be without drilling holes on the top.

Cladding would be easier but will cost you in space - maybe an inch all round if you go with 20mm insulation boards and 6mm ply?
 
thank you ... based on all the advice I think the internal cladding sounds more feasible... I have got a big roll of silver thermal fabric which I can do cupboards and lockers with... lets see if that makes a difference come winter....
 
thank you ... based on all the advice I think the internal cladding sounds more feasible... I have got a big roll of silver thermal fabric which I can do cupboards and lockers with... lets see if that makes a difference come winter....

Failing that you can always a wear cosy little number like this. gaga.jpg
 
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I know I am a big 'gaga' izzy - but the only part of those outfits I would think about wearing are the glasses !!!
 
thank you ... based on all the advice I think the internal cladding sounds more feasible... I have got a big roll of silver thermal fabric which I can do cupboards and lockers with... lets see if that makes a difference come winter....

Just be aware that foil based products need an air gap as they work to combat radiant heat transfer only. If you put the foil into direct contact with the surface you effectively force it to work in conduction, and foil is a really good conductor so will offer negligible insulation.

If your material has layers of wadding they will help a little.

Generally you need something with some bulk thickness, even camping mat is good stuck to the walls and is only 10mm thick. I've used that around some of the structural members in the van and carpet lined directly onto it.
 
Just be aware that foil based products need an air gap as they work to combat radiant heat transfer only. If you put the foil into direct contact with the surface you effectively force it to work in conduction, and foil is a really good conductor so will offer negligible insulation.

If your material has layers of wadding they will help a little.

Generally you need something with some bulk thickness, even camping mat is good stuck to the walls and is only 10mm thick. I've used that around some of the structural members in the van and carpet lined directly onto it.


thanks - it is a roll of proper silver thick insulation material I shall be using... I plan to glue it inside my storage lockers where the inside locker panels are all loose and draughts come through from the cavity
 
thanks - it is a roll of proper silver thick insulation material I shall be using... I plan to glue it inside my storage lockers where the inside locker panels are all loose and draughts come through from the cavity


That's exactly what I did a few months ago,don't know what the stuff is called its approx 5mm thick with foil on each side,got it from B&Q for approx. £15 a roll. I lined out the lockers,under the main bed and put two layers inside the engine cowling where it comes inside the cab,also did inside the locker doors. I would like to line under the main floor as well,as I think this is where most of the cold is coming from but I'm a bit reluctant in case I trap moisture under there,pity I hadn't thought about it before I recarpeted the interior as I might've been able to lay some insulation first.What I did certainly helped but does need a lot more areas covered to be fully effective.
 
My home conversion LDV is insulated sides and roof, but only with fibreglass loft insulation, and then lining carpet over the ply/hardboard inner skin. Its not that bad at all for warmth actually, though I have done quite a few things to improve it (the van was part-done as a Moto-X van when I got it, was a budget first van which we now are fond of, so I wasn't about to rip it all apart anyway).

But like you, I had to 'think outside the box' a bit to improve insulation without going nuts with the work or the budget. Here's what I ended up doing....

A lot of cold ingress comes up through the floor as well as escaping through the walls/ceiling - so stopping it getting in there helps overall. So Ive done a bit to tackle that without having to go nuts with the tools (see below) - maybe its worth thinking about for you?

My overcab storage also though had nothing when I got the van - just the thin glassfibre roof. I did cover with camping mat to start, but that didnt seem to do much.

Now I have the double-faced foil insulation stuff they flog in Wickes and the like (and which I used double-thickness to make my Window 'silver-screens' out of which make a big improvement over the windscreen and the cab door windows) - its a sandwich of foil with bubblewrap as the filling, basically. That in turn is covered with cheapo-self-adhesive carpet tiles. Seems to work quite well. (Note, a foil face, facing into the van will improve things, but is also an ideal place to build condensation. I found if you cover the foil face over with a layer of carpet tiles [or indeed lining carpet should work as well, but more fiddly] seems to solve the condensation issue completely).

I also got a hefty roll of the (heavy) thermal insulation underlay from the builders merchants (dense heavy underlay with foil on the upper face) that is intended for putting under house laminate flooring. I had already used flashing tape all over the cab floor (for acoustic reasons), now I have added a layer of this thermal insulation, then reinstated the rubberised acoustic (hah!) floor mat, and then added a thick carpet offcut over that. The cold ingress from the cab floor is now a good bit better, and its a bit quieter.

I also used some of the remaining laminate floor heavy underlay insulation to put inside the bottom of all the kitchen unit cupboards, and also cut sections that sit on top of the floor when the bed base is pulled out. The sofa section is lined with this stuff permanently, while the moveable 'insulation mats' for the rest of the bed floor area sit between the pull-out frame sections for the bed - all to add extra floor insulation while sleeping.

To add to that, even more of this underlay insulation was glued to the bed base sections, and then covered with carpet tiles so that the mattress cushions are well insuated to prevent cold/damp/condensation. All this is to minimise the heat and cold transfer between us on top of the mattress and the cold under the floor by adding layers of insulation between the floor / air gap under the bed / bed base / mattress.
When the bed is put away as a sofa, the extra floor insulation sections are stored underneath the sofa in the base section with the duvet.

As my roof is lined with lining carpet, it allows velcro to be employed. So, I made double-thickness silver screens with velco edges - I stick these over the side door window, and over the skylights to keep the early morning light out, but also they really do help keep warmth IN.

There's lots of my inane ramblings on what's been done to my van on a thread 'Sully the LDV Convoy' if you can stand reading it - but its pretty much what I've summarised above for insulation.

Left-Field, Untried Idea Section
Only other possibly useful trick I can think of for successfully getting a loose insulation such as recycled bottles or beads into the cavity and getting them well distributed.... its a trick I watched a mate doing when shuttering concrete to get trapped air out......

Drill small holes at the top of a section of inner cavity - just enough in each section to be able to pour your insulation media in.
To get the insulation media you choose to settle to the bottom of a cavity section and build up without gaps (bear in mind that if you have horizontal internal wall stud-work then you'll need to treat each lower panel under a strut independently)...you need a battery drill set on 'Hammer'.

Put a small block of wood against the inner wall face (to prevent marking/damage from the drill chuck) and then put the drill chuck (no bit in it, obviously :lol-053:) against the wood block and give it some welly. The hammer action will vibrate the inner panel and get the insulation media to settle and distribute, so that you should get good fill without any missed areas due to trapped air or whatever. Then just keep feeding more media in till it doesn't settle any more, close off the fill hole and do the next panel.

This idea won't help you with the roof so much though, but it might work well for the walls maybe? (Unless of course, guys like nbrown who know lots more than me know different). I don't know if its ever been done, but theoretically it might work as an idea/fix?

You could for the roof simply velcro large sections of 'silver-screen' stuff across the roof at night (a bigger version of what I do over the skylights -the stuff is plenty light enough even double-thickness to stay put with velcro so you can easily take down and store when you don't need it).

Minimising Heat loss through the worst areas - the glass

If you haven't done so, then making inner 'silver-screens' to cover the glass really helps curb heat-loss.

Pretty easy to make... make a template to suit the windscreen etc. out of cardboard or something (with an overlap so the glass is fully covered), then cut out your insulation.
Spray glue 2 pieces together to make a double-thickness screen.
Seal the edges with Foil Adhesive tape - TA-DAAH!

If you want to be posh you can add eyelets and suckers to stick them to the glass like I did (a well-known auction site came up with the goods), but I needn't have bothered for the main swindscreen - simply folding down the sun visors holds it in place nicely. (Fold the screens up in a 'concertina' fashion for storing - look after them and they'll last ages - the ones I knocked up are going strong after over 2 years)

Put a curtain-rail up between the cab and the hab space, and put some heavy full length lined curtains up so you can close off the cab area from your living space. You then have a smaller area to heat, and insulate yourself a lot more from the cab glass heat loss problem.

I hope this helps.


G.
 
You are of course "certain" that there isn't insulation in the wall cavity, and not just in a small test area? Generally German vans were and still are at the leading edge in their incorporation of the latest technology especially as regards to insulation, so I'd be surprised if there was no insulation.
Of course if your van was the product of some back street startup then perhaps insulation would have cut into profit, customer can't see it so leave it out.
 

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