Help needed! Building landlord is trying to ban overnight parking on our pub carpark

I have to agree with Phil here cease forthwith.

The Caravan Control and Development act is only one of the issues you face in this situation. I suspect going against what others have said this piece of legislation is not the issue.

Your Pub will have a premises licence , the one that states opening hours , time live recorded music can be played for etc. I suspect there is perhaps something within this that has upset the landlord.

Often the Local Authority licence will stipulate any special terms and conditions the obvious one in town centre pubs for example a fully functioning cctv system.

I suspect a half decent solicitor for your landlord would argue that by allowing stop overs you are continuing to trade outside hours.Note no money nor alcohol needs to be retailed, Invitation to treat the following day is classed as trading. Legally I believe could be argued as a breach.

The other point and one you need to be mindful of is that one of you or possibly a person designated by the landlord will be a designated Premises supervisor under the Licensing Act of 2003.

Part of the Act as you are no doubt aware, Is that you mustn't conduct yourself in such a manner that breaches the cornerstones of "Public safety and preventing public nuisance" and "prevention of crime and disorder"... The definitions are very much an open book to interpretation, The LA act 2003 is in a lot of ways very non prescriptive and poorly thought out legislation.

We talk a lot about minority behaviour on here, But one transgression you will have failed to comply with licensing objectives.

Possibly all this is not what you want to hear, but I suspect is more relevant than the caravan control and development act.

If you get stuck, feel free to drop a pm, I can put you in contact with someone who specialises in licensing law.

Good luck running pubs is a tough game nowadays, and sadly entrepreneurial spirit can be easily stifled and it doesn't take a lot to fall foul of legislation and its non prescriptive nature

Channa
 
Perhaps there is a more simple answer...... The Landlord wants them out and this is the excuse he has been waiting for.
There is always two sides to any problem.

Alf
 
channa said:
I have to agree with Phil here cease forthwith.

The Caravan Control and Development act is only one of the issues you face in this situation. I suspect going against what others have said this piece of legislation is not the issue.

Your Pub will have a premises licence , the one that states opening hours , time live recorded music can be played for etc. I suspect there is perhaps something within this that has upset the landlord.

Often the Local Authority licence will stipulate any special terms and conditions the obvious one in town centre pubs for example a fully functioning cctv system.

I suspect a half decent solicitor for your landlord would argue that by allowing stop overs you are continuing to trade outside hours.Note no money nor alcohol needs to be retailed, Invitation to treat the following day is classed as trading. Legally I believe could be argued as a breach.

The other point and one you need to be mindful of is that one of you or possibly a person designated by the landlord will be a designated Premises supervisor under the Licensing Act of 2003.

Part of the Act as you are no doubt aware, Is that you mustn't conduct yourself in such a manner that breaches the cornerstones of "Public safety and preventing public nuisance" and "prevention of crime and disorder"... The definitions are very much an open book to interpretation, The LA act 2003 is in a lot of ways very non prescriptive and poorly thought out legislation.

We talk a lot about minority behaviour on here, But one transgression you will have failed to comply with licensing objectives.

Possibly all this is not what you want to hear, but I suspect is more relevant than the caravan control and development act.

If you get stuck, feel free to drop a pm, I can put you in contact with someone who specialises in licensing law.

Good luck running pubs is a tough game nowadays, and sadly entrepreneurial spirit can be easily stifled and it doesn't take a lot to fall foul of legislation and its non prescriptive nature

Channa
Click to expand...

You are correct, Channa, there are loads of other bits of legislation that the Landlord could use to try for non-compliance and eviction if that is their intent. So it seems strange that they have picked on planning where proving non-compliance would need the local authority involvement to convince a magistrate that they are in non-compliance with their lease. I do wonder whether the landlord is aware of what is happening and simply does not want to get dragged into a planning enforcement case as the owner of the site.
Dave
 
Val54 said:
You are correct, Channa, there are loads of other bits of legislation that the Landlord could use to try for non-compliance and eviction if that is their intent. So it seems strange that they have picked on planning where proving non-compliance would need the local authority involvement to convince a magistrate that they are in non-compliance with their lease. I do wonder whether the landlord is aware of what is happening and simply does not want to get dragged into a planning enforcement case as the owner of the site.
Dave
Click to expand...
I don't think there is enough information to form an accurate opinion, I am commenting too late in the day but I would be responding to the landlords solicitors , I shall be ceasing allowing stopovers in the interim but on what grounds are they alleging terms of contracts etc are being breached.

My own thoughts it is relatively easy to fall foul of the licensing act I keep using the words non prescriptive which it is. Alf could well be right the landlords want shut. Fair to say it seems not on a tenancy at will .(TAW) So someone somewhere is going for a bigger jugular. In my experience the breweries are the biggest leeches ever and if the OP is involved with such as Admiral, Enterprise Punch etc...they are dealing with the biggest set of lowlifes ever

Channa
 
There is a guy called Philip Caley landlord of Stratton Arms maybe worth asking. Seems to know his stuff, very welcoming to motorhomes and in Britstops may be worth contacting.
 
Parking or Camping

We live in Spain. Certainly here there is a very distinct difference between Parking and Camping. It is incorporated into Spanish Law and is also, or so I have been led to believe enshrined in European law.

Here a motorcaravan can legally PARK overnight anywhere that a a similar sized van could park. It is illegal to discriminate against a motor caravan just because it has sleeping and/or cooking facilities. You can sleep in it and cook in it and still only be PARKing.

If however, you put out and awning, tables. chairs etc, (and strictly speaking, open out your side windows) then you are CAMPING and that is a different matter.

There is a website (N332.es) run by the Guardia Civil in Torrevieja that explains all this in English. IF, as I have been told, it is European Law then that might help you, especially since the vans are only parking, not camping.
 
Alf said:
Perhaps there is a more simple answer...... The Landlord wants them out and this is the excuse he has been waiting for.
There is always two sides to any problem.

Alf
Click to expand...

Or a share of the profits!
 
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