help about access please, urgent!
- Thread starter Arnold
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Talbot
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What have you done to be challenged?
Your access rights
Everyone can enjoy Scotland's outdoor access rights. In summary, some of the main features of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 are:
•Everyone has the statutory right of access
•Access rights apply to all land and inland waters, unless excluded (as below)
•Access rights are for outdoor recreation, for crossing land and water, and for some educational and commercial purposes
•Exercising access rights, and managing access land, must be done responsibly.
Where access rights do not apply
•Houses and gardens, and non-residential buildings and associated land
•Farm buildings and yards
•Land in which crops have been sown or are growing (although please note that the headrigs, endrigs and other margins of fields where crops are growing are not defined as crops, whether sown or unsown, and are therefore within access rights).
•Land next to a school and used by the school
•Sports or playing fields when these are in use and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
•Land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
•Golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don't interfere with any games of golf)
•Places like airfields, railways, telecommunication sites, military bases and installations, working quarries and construction sites, and
•Visitor attractions or other places which charge for entry.
Which activities are excluded from access rights?
Access rights don't extend to:
•Being on or crossing land for the purpose of doing anything which is an offence, such as theft, breach of the peace, nuisance, poaching, allowing a dog to worry livestock, dropping litter, polluting water or disturbing certain wild birds, animals and plants
•Hunting, shooting, fishing
•Any form of motorised recreation or passage (except by people with a disability using a vehicle or vessel adapted for their use)
•Anyone responsible for a dog which is not under proper control, or
•Anyone taking away anything from the land for a commercial purpose.
Other related legislation supporting access to the countryside:
•Public rights of way continue to exist and are unaffected by the Act
•Public rights on the foreshore and in tidal waters will continue to exist
•Liability - the Act makes clear that the extent of the duty of care owed by a land manager is unaffected
•Access rights do not extend to criminal activity which is defined by various statutory offences.
Your access rights
Everyone can enjoy Scotland's outdoor access rights. In summary, some of the main features of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 are:
•Everyone has the statutory right of access
•Access rights apply to all land and inland waters, unless excluded (as below)
•Access rights are for outdoor recreation, for crossing land and water, and for some educational and commercial purposes
•Exercising access rights, and managing access land, must be done responsibly.
Where access rights do not apply
•Houses and gardens, and non-residential buildings and associated land
•Farm buildings and yards
•Land in which crops have been sown or are growing (although please note that the headrigs, endrigs and other margins of fields where crops are growing are not defined as crops, whether sown or unsown, and are therefore within access rights).
•Land next to a school and used by the school
•Sports or playing fields when these are in use and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
•Land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
•Golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don't interfere with any games of golf)
•Places like airfields, railways, telecommunication sites, military bases and installations, working quarries and construction sites, and
•Visitor attractions or other places which charge for entry.
Which activities are excluded from access rights?
Access rights don't extend to:
•Being on or crossing land for the purpose of doing anything which is an offence, such as theft, breach of the peace, nuisance, poaching, allowing a dog to worry livestock, dropping litter, polluting water or disturbing certain wild birds, animals and plants
•Hunting, shooting, fishing
•Any form of motorised recreation or passage (except by people with a disability using a vehicle or vessel adapted for their use)
•Anyone responsible for a dog which is not under proper control, or
•Anyone taking away anything from the land for a commercial purpose.
Other related legislation supporting access to the countryside:
•Public rights of way continue to exist and are unaffected by the Act
•Public rights on the foreshore and in tidal waters will continue to exist
•Liability - the Act makes clear that the extent of the duty of care owed by a land manager is unaffected
•Access rights do not extend to criminal activity which is defined by various statutory offences.
suej
Guest
This is a link to the Scottish access code http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/access/approvedcode050604.pdf
Like Talbot I'm wondering what you've done, if we know that maybe we can be more helpful
Sue
Like Talbot I'm wondering what you've done, if we know that maybe we can be more helpful
Sue
Somelier
Guest
If your dogs were on leads, they were therefore under control (unless the leads were so long that you couldn't see what the dog was doing at the other end of it). If you were on a public right of way, then you were perfectly within your right to be there.
If, on the other hand, your dogs were off the lead and worrying the sheep, then you would be at fault, but since this was not the situation you describe, you have no case to answer.
I would be so incensed by this farmer's attitude that I would contact the police and tell them about it. It could be that you are not the only one who has been confronted by this individual.
If, on the other hand, your dogs were off the lead and worrying the sheep, then you would be at fault, but since this was not the situation you describe, you have no case to answer.
I would be so incensed by this farmer's attitude that I would contact the police and tell them about it. It could be that you are not the only one who has been confronted by this individual.
Arnold
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I agree with you and would contact the access officer but as I was there with work I am instead now subject to a disciplinary hearing. I have nine witnesses who confirm the farmer was aggressive and the lead was short and we were anyway on a public highway. I just wanted more law to show them at the hearing as the manager says the road is covered by access. Basically the manager wants me out and this is just another stupid way to try and achieve that.
Randonneur
Guest
It sounds to me as if this is about more than just an aggressive farmer and access rights. You may be able to make a case for bullying and ultimately constructive dismissal.
If you are in a union then you need to talk to your representative about what your rights are in a case like this. If you can't get a resolution through your union, or you are'nt in a union then you could talk to your local ACAS office and see what they say about resolving your case.
I'm not a lawyer or union rep but I have had experience of having to go through some of these procedures for an issue related to a previous place I worked at.
Hope you get it sorted and it does'nt drag on too long for you :goodluck:
If you are in a union then you need to talk to your representative about what your rights are in a case like this. If you can't get a resolution through your union, or you are'nt in a union then you could talk to your local ACAS office and see what they say about resolving your case.
I'm not a lawyer or union rep but I have had experience of having to go through some of these procedures for an issue related to a previous place I worked at.
Hope you get it sorted and it does'nt drag on too long for you :goodluck:
suej
Guest
Good luck Arnold:goodluck: Sounds like a stressfull time for you, but good advice from Randonneur
Sue
Sue
Smaug
Guest
FWIW on my recent trip to Islay at lambing time there were a few farmers that were very aggressive towards allowing any dogs (on lead or not) on or near their sheep. We were banned from accessing a beach & from visiting a ruined castle with our dog (a small Jack Russell) on a short lead.
Most farmers were not bothered as long as she was on a lead or behaving herself, but at least two believed that a dog just being in the neighbourhood of their pregnant ewes could cause them to panic & loose their lambs.
Good luck with the hearing, & I hope you find a more pleasant time in the future.
Most farmers were not bothered as long as she was on a lead or behaving herself, but at least two believed that a dog just being in the neighbourhood of their pregnant ewes could cause them to panic & loose their lambs.
Good luck with the hearing, & I hope you find a more pleasant time in the future.
Arnold
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Thanks for the support. The union are involved and have also taken external legal advice. Just wait and see what nonsense tomorrow brings. Am going to say the road is not covered by outdoor access and is not listed as area covered in the code. Said this already and it was not accepted though, unreal!
al n sal
Guest
definitely speak to your union if in one, if not speak to ACAS for some free advice, and also try get a free half hour consultation with an employment solicitor. also keep detailed notes and records of all talks with whoever at work.
hope it sorts out for you soon, its a horrible place to be in.
al
hope it sorts out for you soon, its a horrible place to be in.
al
arumba
Guest
Please I hope no one will be offended by what I am going to say I am a dog lover as I have a dog of my own However I have seen first hand what a dog can and has done to sheep I have witnessed dead sheep that have been attcked by a dog and other sheep bitten and mamed by a dog believe me it is not a pretty site. so I can understand a farmers concerns especially where little baby lambs are about so dont take it as a personal attack he might have just been concerned that your dog was near his livestock therefore he may have been trying to dicourage people with dogs parking up near his lambs/sheep.