Got a bit of an issue with a Gas locker and a Regin Warning/Advice notice.

[magpus]

Hello,
first post, so please be gentle.
We have a Panel van motorhome.
Purchased secondhand 2019 from a large dealer in Suffolk (you might be able to guess. Not too good reviews on Truspilot)
It was made in apx 2015.

We are were virgins to the motorhome scene, and have learned quite a bit over the past year, and a lot from these forums.

Anyway, yesterday was our first hab check.
We decided to get a mobile person as easier for us.
I had already checked and he was part of the AWS and various other schemes.
First issue was that the moho didn't have an LPG sticker which he said was a legal requirement.
I have since found out that private vehicles aren't required to have the sticker BUT it makes sense, if the fire service need to attend.
Next issue, the main one.
Our gas locker wasn't in a steel enclosure!
For this it failed (F) on the hab check list.
The previous hab checks had all passed on the tick boxes.

He explained a lot about gas and he was not trying to sell me anything and was apologetic.
At the end of the hab check he gave us a warning notice with serial number and in the area that is now ticked
"IS NOT TO CURRENT STANDARDS (NCS) reason Gas bottles not in metal casing and regulator below gas bottle top"

The second part of that reason I understand and I accept, but the first part about the metal casing, seems to be a lot more complex.

I have looked up all sorts of information on the interweb, with companies selling steel gas lockers, but the "rules" appear to suggest that as long as there is this 50mm lip and a few other regs, then that's fine, but I can't find any regulations that a steel casing is or is not a requirement.
The gas locker location IS the accomodation area of the van and only really accessible once you open the back door of the van to expose the wood(ish) locker door.
It's 5.99M Fiat Trigano, so not exactly much living area B-)

I SHOULD have attached a photo for a better understanding, but really, I was just after other peoples views.

I have contacted Gaslow, who should be replying today.
I have also contacted AWS and await their reply.

I can see that steel gas lockers are a very good idea and I will probably have one fitted anyway, but my question I suppose should really be, should it have failed or passed.
Many thanks for listening to my wittering.
Simon

 

[Tim120]

Sorry I can't help but welcome and good luck.

 

[landoboguy]

last time i checked info for this the regs seemed a bit vague and I sold my van a few weeks later for a newbie.
how about following this

 

[izwozral]

Hi and welcome.

Many older vans have no steel locker, in fact my 2016 Rimor didn't have one and I had no issues regarding hab check. Not saying your guy is right or wrong. Not looked at the above video but I can't see any problems lining the locker yourself even if you have two left thumbs.

 

[trevskoda]

No steel box with my gas and never seen one in a caravan,carry on regardless as no hab cert as far as i know is required by law and i have never been ask for one from ins co.
I must say though my van has drop outs in floor for gas to escape which makes sense.

 

[Obanboy666]

last time i checked info for this the regs seemed a bit vague and I sold my van a few weeks later for a newbie.
how about following this

Thats exactly how my Devon Tempest gas locker was built. Just sheet steel glued / screwed onto cupboard walls, doors and corners sealed with silicon or similiar.
Must meet regs as when I visited the factory to check on my vehicles build process an examiner from whatever government department oversees the regs was actually on site checking my vehicle to ensure it met the regulations.

 

[Tim120]

No steel box with my gas and never seen one in a caravan,carry on regardless as no hab cert as far as i know is required by law and i have never been ask for one from ins co.
I must say though my van has drop outs in floor for gas to escape which makes sense.

Steel box in mine with drop outs too.
What you said made me think the only reason I can think for the steel box is to stop an escape of gas getting into the van.

 

[runnach]

Bs en1949 is the current standard and has been since 2013 ....so that is your starting reference point. It is important to remember a NCS doesn’t necessarily mean a fail it simply is what it suggests not to current standards , best example is a 37 Mubarak regulator on an older van you would notate ncs but wouldn’t fail it .indeed happily conforms with the previous standard

Locker stickers you are correct. The regulator below the gas bottle is bad practice as there is a possibility of slumping .

A bit of guidance re the locker

Beds for Campervans | Titan Beds Ltd/ Https//www.titanbeds.co.uk |Home/mid mount/vari mount

Titanbeds Ltd manufacture and supply M1 tested seat beds systems for campervan conversions. We also manufacture and supply gas safe lockers for campervan conversions.

www.gaslocker.co.uk

 

[Nabsim]

I would suggest the vast majority of folks who do hab checks have not done any Gas Safe training (not required) and are following notes from NCS which in parts would not comply to GasSafe.
If you want some good advice give Charlie a call his number is on his website www.vangas.co.uk

 

[runnach]

I would suggest the vast majority of folks who do hab checks have not done any Gas Safe training (not required) and are following notes from NCS which in parts would not comply to GasSafe.
If you want some good advice give Charlie a call his number is on his website www.vangas.co.uk

Ncs is a document not an organisation, most Aws gas people need at least acops qualification to be part of the aws scheme.brother Charlie is acs qualified which allows to work on vehicles for rent acs also administer for gas safe who in the grand scale aren’t interested in day to day lpg .

The non conformance procedure has changed Charlie is your man on that.

 

[magpus]

Wow, thank you all for the information and advice.
I have had some interesting replies from GasLow and also AWS.
Gaslow have been very very helpful.

It appears that the gas locker is legal and sealed as per legal requirements as far as can be seen.
On the warning notice, which was headed Regin, I thought I would contact them, assuming it was some gas body.
Their reply was that they just supply the stationary.

So, my conclusion is that, although it seems like a very good idea to have a metal liner to make it more resistant to fire, there is no legal obligation.
Also the hab check certificate and notice and photographed label attached to my previously turned off gas knobs, means bugger all!
You certainly live and learn !!
Thanyou all again.
ttfn

Gaslow wrote:-

Good morning Simon
Thank you for the photos which are helpful and the information you have provided. Thank you for talking to me regarding your problem.

Most lockers are made of wood or fibre glass, the Standard EN1949-2011-A3 + A1:2013 which is still current does not mention metal lockers have to be used, lockers should give 30 minutes fire protection and sometimes lockers are lined with 1.5mm thick aluminium. From your photos we can see there is the drop out vent, a lip at the bottom of the doorway and a rubber seal around the door which is correct.

Also to let you know that only Gaslow offers three cylinders that meet the more stringent R67 tank standard which includes a Bonfire Test.

I hope this information is helpful but if you have any further questions please ask.

---- sent the below:-

Simon

To clarify no laws are or have been broken and we are only discussing the gas locker not the whole unit. British standards are best practice (not law) and are inherently of a higher standard to European ones but your motorhome did meet European standard at the time of manufacturer.

Would we recommend lining the gas locker ? yes we would in a .6mm aluminium but this is entirely up to you.

Kind Regards



- hide quoted text -

-----Original Message-----


Hello,
thank you so much for getting back to me.
When you mention "does not meet British standards", what does this actually mean.
Is it the locker that doesn't meet British standards or the van.
Does the locker then need to be lined with a steel or metal interior?
My first concern is of course safety, but if laws are being broken then they are in need of enforcement.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be in full possession of the facts.
Thank you again
Kind regards Simon


On 25/06/2020 10:56, --- wrote:

- hide quoted text -
Dear Simon

OK so in answer this is an Italian import and the gas locker met European standards at the time it was built so is OK.

It is not an NCC approved model and does not meet British standards which is probably why the engineer failed it.

Kind Regards

 

[trevskoda]

Than heavens for that as i thought the tin snips would have to be brought into action.

 

[runnach]

British standard European norm = BS EN so how british standard is better than EN is beyond me because the current regulations atarted in 2003 and were amended 2011 and 2013 there have been other bits added as annex so the response from AWS is a bit smoke and mirrors and frankly unsure where the national caravan council have any interest.

It sounds like your man for whatever reason chose to fail rather than check his facts. I looked after 283 statics permenently and gas tested perhaps 500 at the start of a season my job was to pass them a slightly different mindset we had british and foreign vans so the different standards were always a source of amusement ...pre 2003 we worked to whatever standard of the host country. Which embraces the ventilation too.

For anyone getting gas checked by a qualified engineer look for a person who is ACS accredited, and has the L AV component (leisure accommodation vehicle component ) that really is important lpg qualified is not sufficient.

 

[magpus]

Than heavens for that as i thought the tin snips would have to be brought into action.

Just a pair of scissors by the looks of it.......

 

[magpus]

Just had a 30 minute conversation with a man from Gaslow.
Now there is a man with a lot of gas..... Knowledge, I mean.
If you are watching, thankyou Martin.

The following is NOT the view of Gaslow, but it looks more like that I can keep the "Warning/ Advice notice" in the toilet, just in case I run out of paper!
Whether it'll flush is another matter.

I man that did the hab check also let me know that he had had this situation before and customers were not happy, so it sounds as though he needs a little retraining.

 

[magpus]

British standard European norm = BS EN so how british standard is better than EN is beyond me because the current regulations atarted in 2003 and were amended 2011 and 2013 there have been other bits added as annex so the response from AWS is a bit smoke and mirrors and frankly unsure where the national caravan council have any interest.

It sounds like your man for whatever reason chose to fail rather than check his facts. I looked after 283 statics permenently and gas tested perhaps 500 at the start of a season my job was to pass them a slightly different mindset we had british and foreign vans so the different standards were always a source of amusement ...pre 2003 we worked to whatever standard of the host country. Which embraces the ventilation too.

For anyone getting gas checked by a qualified engineer look for a person who is ACS accredited, and has the L AV component (leisure accommodation vehicle component ) that really is important lpg qualified is not sufficient.

Many thanks.
I just checked his list of accreditiations, if that's the right word, and ACS is not one of them.

 

[Buckby]

I am gas safe registered and as from a few years ago there is no such thing as ncs anymore it is down to the engineer to carry out a risk Assessment then following a risk Assessment decide whether it is at risk or immediately dangerous following a risk Assessment I would say there is very little risk as the van is 5 years old and there has been no problems with the system up to now.
With ncs you do not need to do anything it was stopped because landlords of houses were getting them and not doing anything about them so they started making gas engineers carry out a risk Assessment hope this helps its a little long winded also my regulator is lower than the top of my bottles but it was fitted by swift like that.