Fuse blowing. Help.

[trevskoda]

Sorry Trev what do you mean bad places, they have to be run somewhere, and putting screws anywhere in a van or even your home carries risks. I am sure the cables have been ran appropriately by a well respected company like Devon, but unfortunately the poster may have accidentally damaged the cable by inserting a screw where a well run cable has been placed. Yes if you have wired your own van, and know exactly where all of your cable has been run that’s advantageous, but someone could buy your van and do as the poster has done, would you then say your cables were badly run.


Most of us don’t have the required skillset or in some cases the health to do our own conversion. Speaking personally, I have some of the skills required, but not the inclination, nor do I think I could achieve the standards I have in my Rapido. Yes you save money, feel a sense of achievement once you have completed your conversion, but it’s not for everyone. Perhaps I am fortunate being able to afford a factory built van, and perhaps you are fortunate having the knowledge to do what you have done Trev.

100% but if they fitted cables along a left right roof line in a plastic pipe as i did with some extra cables just incase then also supply a diagrame of layout for owners it would help big time, not rocket sience, hope folk get sorted without to much trouble, it can be a nightmare.

 

[Robmac]

All I can say is that I'm happy for you Trev in your smugness.

...
Meanwhile, returning to the problem I'm trying to solve .... I've a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Getting down to the nitty gritty. IF a self tapping screw has hit a wire could removing the screw sort things out. Does the fact that it's shorting mean I've split the wire. It's under a probably glued down laminate floor. Aaargghh.
(I know all this presupposes this IS the issue. But the timing of my putting the divider up and the fault occuring certainly points to this direction. Only two f'n screws in the floor too.)

(I'm unlikely to get back to investigating for a few days as I'm full time (with Mrs RSD7a) with grandchildren while parents have a break.)

Might be worth sending the folk at Devon Conversions a picture of the partition and ask them if it is likely that there is a cable where you have put screws in.

 

[Fisherman]

Might be worth sending the folk at Devon Conversions a picture of the partition and ask them if it is likely that there is a cable where you have put screws in.

Only problem with this Rob is the warranty.
I have no experience of Devon motorhomes but they could invalidate the whole warranty due to what was done. I would consider having this work done independently. I am sure Devon would apply a charge, so you would have to pay them anyway. But getting an independent company to do the work would avoid warranty issues. Hopefully removing the screw will solve the problem, fingers crossed it does. I think it’s very likely this is what caused the issue.

 

[RSD7a]

Only problem with this Rob is the warranty.
I have no experience of Devon motorhomes but they could invalidate the whole warranty due to what was done. I would consider having this work done independently. I am sure Devon would apply a charge, so you would have to pay them anyway. But getting an independent company to do the work would avoid warranty issues. Hopefully removing the screw will solve the problem, fingers crossed it does. I think it’s very likely this is what caused the issue.

Screws (4 actually) just removed with the "help" of 3 and 5 yr old granddaughters. Unfortunately the two little ones weren't my lucky charm and the fuse blew immediately again. They're decent people at Devon. I'm now going down to Co Durham to have another snag sorted at the end of the month. In addition I'd already already mentioned this 10A fuse is blowing and they are going to investigate when I'm there. I'll explain what's happened and show them the holes when I'm face to face with them. Of course I'll be paying them to fix it if my screws have done the damage. Maybe, just maybe it's something else.
Thanks to all those who have sent helpful comments. One painful lesson learned here. And I was so pleased with the partition too ....

 

[Fisherman]

Screws (4 actually) just removed with the "help" of 3 and 5 yr old granddaughters. Unfortunately the two little ones weren't my lucky charm and the fuse blew immediately again. They're decent people at Devon. I'm now going down to Co Durham to have another snag sorted at the end of the month. In addition I'd already already mentioned this 10A fuse is blowing and they are going to investigate when I'm there. I'll explain what's happened and show them the holes when I'm face to face with them. Of course I'll be paying them to fix it if my screws have done the damage. Maybe, just maybe it's something else.
Thanks to all those who have sent helpful comments. One painful lesson learned here. And I was so pleased with the partition too ....

It’s easy done, and it may well not be one of your screws. But I suppose screws are normally larger and the screwing action itself may have left un insulated cores. But normally this type of thing is generated by something done after the event, and your screws I suspect may well be the cause. Anyway I know you will get this sorted finding dead faults is simple, but accessing the cable can be difficult.

Just to make you feel a bit better, in my 30 years installing alarm systems I twice drilled through plastic water pipes, on three occasions I drilled through mains cables. These things happen, thankfully rarely, but as you will note, you never forget them, and you never stop feeling they should have been avoided.

Please let us know how you get on.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

100% but if they fitted cables along a left right roof line in a plastic pipe as i did with some extra cables just incase then also supply a diagrame of layout for owners it would help big time, not rocket sience, hope folk get sorted without to much trouble, it can be a nightmare.

A diagram of electrical layout seems like a no-brainer to me.

But do any of the manufacturers/converters supply one to the customers/retailers?

And if not, why not?

 

[merl]

Screws (4 actually) just removed with the "help" of 3 and 5 yr old granddaughters. Unfortunately the two little ones weren't my lucky charm and the fuse blew immediately again. They're decent people at Devon. I'm now going down to Co Durham to have another snag sorted at the end of the month. In addition I'd already already mentioned this 10A fuse is blowing and they are going to investigate when I'm there. I'll explain what's happened and show them the holes when I'm face to face with them. Of course I'll be paying them to fix it if my screws have done the damage. Maybe, just maybe it's something else.
Thanks to all those who have sent helpful comments. One painful lesson learned here. And I was so pleased with the partition too ....

I know the whole fixings causing the issue was my idea in the first place but frankly it's a bit of a long shot WRT a 12v van system because in order to create a short circuit the screw would have to 'catch' both positive AND negative at the same time, not easy and if you've removed the screws and the issue still persists then the panel fixing is probably completely innocent. Sooooo maybe check those lights fittings for trapped wires if you can get em down simply enough

 

[RSD7a]

I know the whole fixings causing the issue was my idea in the first place but frankly it's a bit of a long shot WRT a 12v van system because in order to create a short circuit the screw would have to 'catch' both positive AND negative at the same time, not easy and if you've removed the screws and the issue still persists then the panel fixing is probably completely innocent. Sooooo maybe check those lights fittings for trapped wires if you can get em down simply enough

That's a consoling response, but I can't understand how a trapped wire would suddenly be an issue in a new van which had been working perfectly for a couple of months. Nothing on the light fittings having been tampered with.

 

[Geek]

There are ways to find out how far away a break or short circuit is in a length of wire, but in a motorhome the error might be as big as the distance.

Most wiring goes via connector blocks. If you find the relevant connector block and test the impedance of each cable, you ought to be able to at least isolate the problem.

Leave that one disconnected and see what doesn't work.

 

[merl]

That's a consoling response, but I can't understand how a trapped wire would suddenly be an issue in a new van which had been working perfectly for a couple of months. Nothing on the light fittings having been tampered with.

If you compress two cables together really hard eventually the insulation gets displaced and the conductors touch and short out time and vibration actually helps. Yep, it's a long shot but probably not as hard to do as cause a permanent short with a screw that wasn't cured by removing the screw TBF.

 

[Fisherman]

That's a consoling response, but I can't understand how a trapped wire would suddenly be an issue in a new van which had been working perfectly for a couple of months. Nothing on the light fittings having been tampered with.

Did the lights ever work after you put the screws in. If they did I would reckon it’s not the screws as the fuse would have blown immediately after the circuit went live. As both Merl and I have stated it could be a compressed cable that is causing the issue, it could also be a faulty light.

 

[colinm]

If you compress two cables together really hard eventually the insulation gets displaced and the conductors touch and short out time and vibration actually helps. Yep, it's a long shot but probably not as hard to do as cause a permanent short with a screw that wasn't cured by removing the screw TBF.

A slight aside.
A few weeks back I purchased an PIR lantern from Toolstation, the design leaves two single insulated cables trapped between a cover and the aluminum casing, what idiot thought that was a good idea!

 

[RSD7a]

Did the lights ever work after you put the screws in. If they did I would reckon it’s not the screws as the fuse would have blown immediately after the circuit went live. As both Merl and I have stated it could be a compressed cable that is causing the issue, it could also be a faulty light.

The clue to the failed lights was the LPG gauge not lighting up. According to Devon this is wired into one of the internal spots. As far as I can piece it together, the LPG gauge "failed" after I'd screwed the partition in. It was only later that I realised the dangly (thanks Trev) spotlights were not working. Until I was told by Devon that the LPG gauge (which takes a minimal current) was wired into one of the lights, given the long daylight hours I'd never thought to test the lights. I just thought the gauge was u/s. When I did test the spots they didn't work. So my best guess is that it all failed after the screws were put in. Four in total, two each into two nylon (plastic?) fixings blocks, through cushion flooring into I assume, plywood. I don't know if any wires were laid under the assumed plywood or in a plywood-cushion floor sandwich.
Right now, I'm trying not to fret and waiting to pass the situation over to Devon at the month end. Meantime, there are other internal lights so the vans entirely usable and would be through the summer come to that.

 

[Fisherman]

The clue to the failed lights was the LPG gauge not lighting up. According to Devon this is wired into one of the internal spots. As far as I can piece it together, the LPG gauge "failed" after I'd screwed the partition in. It was only later that I realised the dangly (thanks Trev) spotlights were not working. Until I was told by Devon that the LPG gauge (which takes a minimal current) was wired into one of the lights, given the long daylight hours I'd never thought to test the lights. I just thought the gauge was u/s. When I did test the spots they didn't work. So my best guess is that it all failed after the screws were put in. Four in total, two each into two nylon (plastic?) fixings blocks, through cushion flooring into I assume, plywood. I don't know if any wires were laid under the assumed plywood or in a plywood-cushion floor sandwich.
Right now, I'm trying not to fret and waiting to pass the situation over to Devon at the month end. Meantime, there are other internal lights so the vans entirely usable and would be through the summer come to that.

Well it’s almost certainly the screws.
Had you put a pin, or a staple through you would probably have sorted it by simply removing it. But the screw being rotated as it entered the cable acted like a drill piece.
Here’s hoping Devon can get to the cable easily, I am sure they will, good luck.

 

[RSD7a]

Update.
Down to Co Durham yesterday for 8.30am appointment this morning with Devon Conversions. Stayed at one of my favourite overnight spots, Malton picnic area near Lanchester (lived there in the 80s) and (by the way) it now has it's first review on our POIs.

With some trepidation I showed Anthony at Devon the screw holes in the floor resulting from my storage area mods ... "You're fine, there's nothing under there" he said immediately. Phew. Turns out it was a trapped wire relating to the spot lights as mentioned early in the thread by Bill. Its v fine cabling and was trapped behind one of the overhead cupboards during the build. (The apparent timing coincidence with my own modification putting a partition in an under seat storage area was just that: a coincidence).
Got a plumbing issue and a mystery seat belt issue sorted at the same time. All done and dusted in 90 mins. Very happy with the no quibble service and outcome. A happy counterpoint to other van woes on here.

 

[Fisherman]

Pleased you got your van sorted, and it was not as you feared the screws in the floor.
It’s actually quite common for fine 12v cabling when compressed to create a short circuit. Sometimes the short circuit is created immediately, but as you see it can sometimes take time for the compressed cable to fail.
Enjoy the new van, hopefully this will be the only fault.