frozen engine or frozen diesel?

al n sal

Guest
what do you think.
we spent the last weekend in sandringham, temp recorded at -10.5 C, in morning van wouldn't start not a murmur. left alone for several hours while we went for a long hike, got back outside temp was quite warm so tried again and engine it started.

so question is was it cold enough for diesel to freeze?
 
i run coaches and minibuses for a living....

don't know the answer to your question but do no COLD KILLS MOTORS!

my advice.... don't worry, don't wonder why, just enjoy all the many times it starts without a murmur!
 
at that temperature the diesel in the small pipes can turn to lard,especially if there's a bit of wind chill, thats what it sounds like
 
Last winter when it was about minus 12, my partner started but was running very ragged, like there was dirt in the carb. It was low on fuel, almost down to reserve and I was told by lorry drivers at Truckstop when I went to fuel up, that because it was so low on fuel, the fuel had probably frozen, apparently if there'd been more fuel in it it wouldn't have frozen so easily (physics or something). I filled up and it was fine.
Lesson learned = keep the fuel tank at least half full during very cold temps.
 
When did you last fill with diesel?

Winter diesel I understand is changed slightly to prevent waxing at low temperatures. If you still have summer diesel, that may explain the problem.
 
In the old days we used to have such a thing as "winter diesel" for lorries, compressors, general plant used in the winter months.
As said above, this was supposed to be "less waxy" than the summer stuff.

Here's a bit that I shouldn't be telling (don't try this at home, kids!):
we used to add a pint of petrol to the fuel tank when filling with diesel ( so that it mixed). The old-timers swore by it.
I expect it is dangerous practice and NOT recommended.

Another thing we used to do is physically warm things up with a burning torch of rags on a stick under the engine! :scared:

Again, that is NOT recommended, but at my age, I'd probably do it to get mobile.

sean rua.
 
al n sal said:
what do you think.
we spent the last weekend in sandringham, temp recorded at -10.5 C, in morning van wouldn't start not a murmur. left alone for several hours while we went for a long hike, got back outside temp was quite warm so tried again and engine it started.

so question is was it cold enough for diesel to freeze?
Click to expand...

positivley barmmy compared to stone henge cant even remmeber if i put the antifreeze in but it started just need a slight chug on starter motor to tell it to start
 
I was OK in the van last year and it was down to minus 20 for a couple of days.

If you are living in the van and can keep the temp at 0 to 10 degrees some of that will filter through to the engine which I'm sure helps.

The tip about having plenty of fuel in the tank is a sound one. A thin layer of fuel at the bottom will freeze much faster. Lorry drivers sometimes light fires underneath their tanks to thaw them out. My tank is plastic so I'm not going to try it :lol-053:
 
The other reason for keeping your fuel tank full is to prevent condensation, which of course means more water in the tank that WILL freeze!
 
woke up in the alps when that horrible wind[the mistral?]was blowing,to find the radiator cap of my old bedford was standing on a perfect 2 inch column of ice,and of course the fuel was just lard.even a 2 burner under the engine didn't warm it up so we just lived there for a couple of weeks till the weather changed. after that i would add a gallon of petrol to a full tank if i thought it might happen again,it was a bit boring.
 
thanks for replys guys,

the tank was almost full, and battery turned engine over very easily, I tried twice second time until the engine speed started the slow not wanting to kill battery so stopped, as we was on a campsite so wasn't too worried. van started easily once warmed up a little and since.

but was thinking nasty minus temps twice in as many years now so could start becoming more often so was thinking possible prevention, especially for wilding.

i did see once on telly small bonfires under lorries, but thats a little toooooooo scary for me, but might look at wrapping fuel tank partially with thin insulation and possibly fuel pipes too, adding petrol maybe , etc, would love to eventually travel abroad and to colder climates when we can afford it, so now we know my van don't like cold, think they may be precautions to follow.

thanks again everyone

al
 
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:wave::wave::wave:sod it io cant get back until laste march keep it warm where in Morbihan? i normall cote d'armor 3 degrees cooler they say than south of Brest or wherever......
:goodluck:
 
The fire under the sump is an old WWII trick I'm told (perhaps even WWI)....but depending what's under yours....would a disposable bar-b-que with perhaps less charcoal in it not do the trick and keep the underneath warm enough to allow starting without setting fire to anything?
 
al n sal said:
what do you think.
we spent the last weekend in sandringham, temp recorded at -10.5 C, in morning van wouldn't start not a murmur. left alone for several hours while we went for a long hike, got back outside temp was quite warm so tried again and engine it started.

so question is was it cold enough for diesel to freeze?
Click to expand...

The answer to your question is no. You can only get diesel to freeze properly in laboratory conditions as you need really cold temperatures and nature just doesn't get that cold unless you head out into space. As mentioned though it is the parafin in the diesel that starts to solidy at around -9 creating the waxy effect that has been mentioned. This can cause problems in loss of power and rough idling initially but it shouldn't stop your engine from starting. More likely is your battery juice is down. It might turn the engine over but has it got enough juice to supply enough power to your glow plugs? The capability of batteries reduces massively in the cold so i suspect this is where your problem lies not in your fuel.
I have just returned from the french alps and was able to start my van on diesel bought in the uk in temps of -25. To start it i found that rather than just getting it on the turn of the key with an instant fire i needed to keep the starter going (by keeping the key turned) and the accelarator depressed until it did rev up.
 
I worked as a "vanboy" for a goods carrier in the early 60s and in the wintertime I used to open up the garage in the mornings before the owner/drivers arrived.
The guy I worked for showed me how to light a fire under the sump using old egg boxes and he then had no problem starting the Thames Trader when he arrived.
His brother (the other owner/driver) did not do this and had no end of problems getting started in the really cold mornings.
There was NO heating in the place where the trucks were garaged.
 
I remember in the 50/60s people used a paraffin sump heater, just kept a small amount of heat on the sump.

In parts of Canada, you can plug your vehicle into the mains and the water/oil in the engine is kept warm, same on some standby generators, as when they start they're on full load almost immediately and don't have time to warm up.
 
Some years ago I bought one of the first Ford Escorts with a diesel engine, it always was a bad starter in cold weather from new. I used to put an electric fan heater in the engine compartment for a few minutes, playing on the area of the fuel pump and pipes leading to the injectors, that worked, but after some time the fuel pump developed leaks around the "o" ring seals, thankfully just on "trade in time".
 
sometimes it helps to heat the glow plugs 2 or 3 times before you turn the key to start position.

what I mean is: turn ignition ON and wait for glow light to go off --> turn ignition OFF. Immediately turn ignition ON till the glow light goes off and then start.

If you have a failing glow plug or two, this might help you to get the engine running on the rest.
 
don't know with modern engines, but any doubt about the battery on a cold morning and we'd pull off the air intake and put a hand over it while someone turned it over . as no air was getting in,there was only fuel to compress and the engine would turn over faster,once the speed seemed right,off with the hand and she'd start
 
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