Do we really condone this

Campervanman

Guest
Are we getting away from the point of this site WILD CAMPING we seem to have a self elected publicity officer. He is contacting Councils supermarkets and the like to seek permission to camp on there land / car park. A lot of the time these organizations turned a blind eye about someone staying overnight. For any organization to actually come out and say YES is inviting trouble and may lead to more height barriers signs or high overnight charges from those who say NO. No company / council are going to make overnight official or they could face all sorts of backlash from local official camp sites who make a living from people staying overnight. If I owned a business with a large car park and arrived in the morning to find any number of vans camped there I would hit the roof. One tucked in the corner I may just say “cheeky sod” or I may never have known by them arriving late and leaving early. I have personally stayed on occasions in supermarket car parks but only after obtaining permission from the store manager usually after spending some money in there store.. The following is a quote from Graham Hadfield
“The reason that overnight parking is allowed by the Council is so that the many guest houses and public houses providing overnight accommodation, but which are unable to provide parking for their clientele, may direct vehicle owners to alternative nearby facilities. Similarly, many homes within the Dales do not have off road parking (although we do provide each household with a free parking pass which allows for parking after 4pm and up to 11am on our car parks).
The reason why overnight camping is prohibited, on the other hand, is that there are numerous licensed camping and caravan sites throughout the Derbyshire Dales and we do not wish to condone the use of our public car parks by travellers seeking alternative low cost accommodation, be that overnight or longer term.
Restricted Access caused by narrow roads. We do not hold data of this type and until a comprehensive survey can be undertaken, I am not able to offer a response.
Derbyshire Dales District Council have further details on their web site” So now does that mean that this council will look more closely at vehicles parked overnight because someone has brought this practice of ours to the attention of a council official, whereas before the council employee who checked on the car parks turned a blind eye.
Sorry but Mr Hadfield is in my opinion doing us as wild campers more harm than good, it is going to get that we will be stopped from even making a cup of tea

Campervanman
 
do we really condone this

no campervanman we don't i think by drawing attention to it he has blown it for all!
 
I do see and in someways share 'campervanman's' point but personally I think Graham has done a good service by establishing what can be done in various public car parks.

The problem with many UK supermarkets is that let out the management of the carparks to third party companies.

In my opinion the UK needs to open up to the benefits of motorhomes: true they may not spend as much as a person staying in a hotel but they still do make a contribution.

Graham is the wrong person to attack -the enemy I would suggest is the 'Caravan Club' which personally I feel is more of 'Caravan PLC' wishing to defend its network of sites. Too many motorhomers in the UK have the resources to stay at theses sites but there is a significant number of MHers existing on a small budget.

We need to come together and support efforts such as Motorcaravan club to see parking permitted in more places along the lines of French Aires.
 
Hello Campervanman,

The quote you attribute to me is actually a quote from Derbyshire Dales Council explaining why they take the stance which they do.

If you look at the home page of my web site you will see that "This project started out when, just after purchasing our motorhome in June 2006, we came across the impossibility of parking in some towns or areas of them." The web site is concerned with parking at any time, not just overnight parking.

You will also see that the project started in July, some 3 months before I joined this forum (before, indeed, I was aware that it existed), so I think "self elected publicity officer" is, perhaps, a little inaccurate.

I have seen a number of postings on forums and letters in magazines from people who have had problems parking and/or have ended up being fined for parking where they should not. The information which I have obtained and published is freely available to anyone to check before going somewhere and thereby being able to avoid such complications should they so wish.

I note that you say "No company / council are going to make overnight official or they could face all sorts of backlash from local official camp sites who make a living from people staying overnight." That statement is actually inaccurate. There may be few councils (and no companies that I am aware of other than truckstops/motorway services) which encourage overnight parking but the number is certainly greater than zero (e.g. Canterbury & Powys) and, I think, likely to grow once others see the economic benefits. It is definitely the case that the number of councils which make daytime provision for motorhomes is growing.

One result that you may like is East Lothian. A user of the web site contacted me about some "no overnight parking" signs in car parks which were not on the list given to me by the council of those where the parking order bans overnight stays. When I contacted the council again they had to admit the fact that the signs are invalid - a fact which is now publicised on the web site.

In conclusion, I would just say that the overwhelming number of comments I have had on the web site are positive. The one which started this thread is only the second negative one which I have seen.

Graham
 
I have a friend who is contracted to Tesco to maintain their carparks and surrounding enviroments ie shrubs and grass. He tells me that Tesco expect at least £1000. 00 per day from each car parking space.
An awful lot of campervans take up more than one space! Overnight is a different issue but he has been out all this week salting until 2 AMQUOTE=ian81]I do see and in someways share 'campervanman's' point but personally I think Graham has done a good service by establishing what can be done in various public car parks.

The problem with many UK supermarkets is that let out the management of the carparks to third party companies.

In my opinion the UK needs to open up to the benefits of motorhomes: true they may not spend as much as a person staying in a hotel but they still do make a contribution.

Graham is the wrong person to attack -the enemy I would suggest is the 'Caravan Club' which personally I feel is more of 'Caravan PLC' wishing to defend its network of sites. Too many motorhomers in the UK have the resources to stay at theses sites but there is a significant number of MHers existing on a small budget.

We need to come together and support efforts such as Motorcaravan club to see parking permitted in more places along the lines of French Aires.[/QUOTE]
 
ooo errr, a can of worms.
On a personal level, I have never had a problem, UK or abroad, with finding various little 'hidey-holes' without being bothered by anyone, or bothering anyone, to park up overnight. But so often end up sleeping with one ear on alert!
If these locations became widely known, and frequently used, would they suddenly grow height barriers or no overnighting signs?

As noted elsewhere, one or two motorhomes are acceptable, but when the multitude descend........
A system of aires in the UK would prevent this. Obviously, participating business's could limit the number, and control the length of stay of overnighting 'vans.

A lady on another forum spent a great deal of her spare time having a very serious go at creating a Brit-passion on the lines of France-passion, but her efforts, although appreciated, were mainly fruitless.

Personally I have not visited Grahams website, so I cannot comment.
Yes it would be nice if the UK became more like France, so I thank the likes of Graham, the motorhome club, or anybody else trying to fire up an aires program in the UK. Wouldn't this be to our advantage?
Official stopovers could aid restful sleep, saving the occupants sleeping with one ear on alert.

Voxy.
 
Read and Weep

I sit here, read and weep!! Carparks? Caravans? Councils? Have you lot lost your way? Those words are not part of the Wild Campers vocab, so why, why, bring Wild camping for motorhomes down to the level of the Caravanner?
10 out 10 for Campervanmans views and comments, I concur, totally!!
Keep it WILD keep it FREE.
 
Who Dares Wins!

I totally agree with Campervanman. The thought of somebody contacting councils and supemarkets horrifies me.
I have been "WildCamping" everynight for the last 13 months, my favourite sites being supermarkets. I use their washrooms to save on gas and to save my cassette from filling up too quickly, I use their garages' water supply to fill up my tank, i even use their carrier bags for my rubbish. I use public car parks, i use hospital carparks. I even just park on streets in housing estates (I could just be visiting a relative!), especially these days when WiFi internet is on the increase, and people don't protect their network. (How else could I post this)?

My rules are simple...Arrive late and leave early, never stay for more than one night, NEVER LEAVE A TRACE and if there is another van there, move on and find some where else, Europes a big place you know!

Please do not encourage car parks and supermarkets to build height barriers...I'm sick of sticking my tv arial back on and anyway, I might end up homeless.
 
lets get real

Hi all, I for one don,t wild camp in the UK, in fact I don,t use the camper at all in England, Its just to expensive, Nowever I think that two points need to made clear.
1. Any site that is set up by a company for the use of its customers is there to show a return for that company. Be it Tescos, or Devon CC. they set up car parks to turn a coin. I think that using toilets or any other services which these companies have provided without any funding to them is wrong.I know that the CC,s take our council tax, but thats not the point.
2. In England due to the lack of control on new age travelers, pikeys etc, we all have seen car parks closed off to anything larger then a small wheelbarrow, but thats down to this PC correct county we live in, nothing gets done because it may upset someone, somewere, sometime. Also with the control of parking leaving the care of the police to the CC,s we have seen the miles of yellow lines and no parking signs growing each year. So what can be done.
I like the idea of someone taking the bull by the horns and asking the question, Why can,t I sleep overnight at a CC run car park. Why are there so many rules saying this and that. Nowever if they come back and say, well these people just truck up leave and spend no money in the area then they have a right, no?? After all these areas are set up to turn a coin, make a return.
I have in the past a long time ago spend the night in a pub car park, but not after asking, and having a few beers, sometimes I have been asked for some money, but most of the time just told to have a good night, and do you want a cupper.
Get on with the good work, and well done for having a go at turning things round, Wild camping is not for me anyway acting like a pikey, ie. take take take, with no pay back.
terry
 
Freeloading???

I just love the way you assume i don't spend money in these supermarkets...I might not live in a proper bed...but i do eat.

As to the legalities of using other peoples broadband, please quote me the legislation which states it IS illegal. And as for encoraging others...I like base jumping, but don't be sheepish in thinking you have to do the same.

And finally...i just love being called a freeloader, especially as I am currently paying 40% tax on my investments.
 
My appologies

Graham/Kath

I appreciate the fact that you had asked the question, I was referring to those who hadn’t. Regarding the question, is using other people’s bandwidth theft? There has been no legislation to this effect, as yet. Indeed if there was, companies like Channel 4 and Sky TV would be in trouble, as they offer the facility to download TV programmes and films, from their website. However the only thing you download from their website is a P2P program which in effect allows users to unknowingly download these items from other people’s computers, thus bypassing any security measures they might have and of course, uses their bandwidth. You could argue the point (and you would probably win) that it is morally wrong, but theft? No!

Regarding using supermarket facilities. In my opinion, the only people I could be harming, is the supermarket itself, and as I only target one particular chain, whose moral values deserve it, I can’t see the fuss. Lets face it, this Supermarket giant last year, had recorded profits of £3bn and this year £2.25bn, the only reason for its shortfall this year is that they are buying all the vacant land in major cities to prevent competitors building new stores. Theft of others people’s livelihood?

With reference to your reluctance to use wireless internet in your Motorhome, and the thanks for pointing out its pitfalls (I couldn’t work out if this was sarcasm or genuine). Do use it, it’s a wonderful tool, just secure it, there is a facility within Windows XP Service pack 2 (which is downloadable free from the Microsoft web site. I would email it you, but I don’t think that would go down very well (aiding and abetting, and all that).

Finally, getting back to the original point. If anybody wants to canvass their local CC, please make it for free WiFi in all the major cities and not widespread parking permissions. Quote the fact that Manchester has it and so does Leicester Square, London. (Think we might get moved on, there).;)

With sincerest kind regards, Jerry
 
Hi Everyone,

I applaud Grahame Hadfields efforts to try and get a definitive list of places that we can park or overnight.Obviously, many of the councils/supermarkets etc, had their policies up and running, well before Grahame got involved.

This has been a problem ever since we first started motorhoming in the early nineteen eighties. Whilst I have always "Wild Camped", to some extent, I'm certainly not against paying, so long as the charges are reasonable.

In my experience, If you want to have relaxing camping excursions, then it often isn't possible to wild camp all of the time because of all the problems that go with it ( Many of these have been covered in the past ).

It must have been an enormous effort on Grahame's part to create his website and obtain all the info. Thanks, Grahame.

Happy Camping,

Mick H.
 
What is wild camping??:confused:
Is it parking up in some out of the way place and surviving on what you have onboard? Or is it parking on a carpark and using what you have on board?
I work with my brother and we do wild camping trips where we teach camp skills and Bushcraft, how to light a fire with a piece of iron and flint onto char cloth etc etc. We sleep in hammocks under a basher or on the floor on ferns or carry mats at the side of Lakes and Lochs. We cook over fires using natural pot hangers..... Thats wild camping.
So what is wild camping to me when in my m-home? Its anywhere where I don't plug into the electric. Where I use what facilities I have in the van. Yes I have parked on carparks....So what. If its free I'm wild about it.
You asked the question "Do we really condone this"?? Get a grip mate. Park on a carpark, shut your blinds, put on some nice music and you could be anywhere.
Keep up the good work Graham.
Johnny F
 
Been away for the weekend so I've just picked up this thread again. As I mentioned in my previous post - The web site is concerned with parking at any time, not just overnight parking.

I spent all my working life dealing with information provision and believe that having accurate information on which to base a decision is preferable to not seeking information and going ahead anyway.

I don't believe that seeking and publishing the information will encourage any council to erect barriers (physical or legal) that they would not have erected anyway. If anyone has evidence that any council has done so then please let me know and I will take it up with the council concerned.

Graham
 
graham/kath said:
Hope u had a good weekend, (motorhome I trust!)
Click to expand...
Yes thanks. Not wild camping - Lee Valley Leisure Complex in London.

Thanks for your support.

Graham
 
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